How do we really support Richmond

[Omarkum]

I posted this as a reply to Tiger masochist's " saying G'day " topic . He simply asked if some of our regulars new the meaning of what it means to be a supporter.
I decided this question should be a thread in itself. Lets get this question into the open.....

Yes , welcome to the site masochist. I agree with your comments fully , the people that you refer to are part of the problem at Richmond and as much as its true, their lack of respect and decency towards some of the players they bag, is appalling.

Rogers is past it , but has been a tremendous player for the club and deserves to be spoken of accordingly.

Bowden is having a stinker and I think may rightly be traded.....but I will be sorry to see him go.

Duncan is at the end of his career ...but listening to them you'd think they were talking of and old rag to be thrown away...he is a tiger legend , let it be heard in everything you say.

Richo has got many faults .....but how many could stand the pressure he has been placed under BY US ..an old life member told me in the punt road car park in 93 .."we've found the new Royce Hart "..sh!t...and yet with all that HE has won us many more games than we would of without him....and still no love or decency from these people...

Its good if they think there are players who arent up to what we need, they should say so....but its how they speak of them that makes me feel sick.

I have lost track of the number of times I have heard opposition supporters talk of their disgust at the bagging so many SO CALLED Richmond supporters give to their own players. When we going good we ROAR, we we are going bad we stick it into our own. Great, real great.

As I said in an earlier post I am in awe of anyone who was even considered to be good enough to pull on a Richmond jumper , with th exception of people like Richard Lounder. When I was a kid , we were talking of the opposition when we screamed ...ON VICTORY WE THRIVE , EAT EM ALIVE

 

[Rosy]

Are Richmond supporters really any worse than those of other teams?

I've been among members of a few other teams and they seem no different to us.

I was there when Freo overtook a 40 point lead the Hawks had at Telstra a couple of years ago. I've never heard abuse like it coming from the Hawks members. The cheer squad even left before the end of the game. It wouldn't be too often a team looks up in the last quarter and sees all but a few of their cheerssquad filing out early.

Essendon and Collingwood member areas seem pretty similar to Richmonds. In fact from my experience I'd say probably more abusive. It depends how the team is travelling, and Richmond has been worse than any over a prolonged period.

I admit North's supporters seem pretty placid.

It works both ways though. Those vocal supporters who let their opinions be known are also the ones with the power to fire the team up and get them over the line too.

It seems to me people take notice of the vocal few rather than a general representation of supporters.

All teams would have their rabid component of supporters, I don't think we're any worse really.

I'd prefer to sit amongst the yobbos in the outer than sip chardonnay and clap politely behind glass windows anyday.

I don't like hearing players abused, but I doubt they'd take too much notice.

Richo giving his team mates a spray for missing him is far worse than some idiot in the crowd giving Richo a spray imo. Imagine if every team mate abused Richo in the same way when he missed them or missed a goal which happens as often as not.

What would footy be without the passion? I hate hearing and reading our players bagged, but I'd hate it if noone cared enough to comment too.

Go Tiges.

 

[tigerman]

Hopefully we are no worse than other supporters.

I'm sure that alot of the frustrations come from the lack of direction that we have had in place at Tigerland.
It certainly is the case with me. We have been promised alot over the years with very little in return.
I guess as a kid that I took it for granted barracking for a great team like the Tigers. I sure am thankful that I saw those great years.
If it wasn't for Tommy Hafey and Co giving us that success, we would really have a very small supporter base now and would be really up against it.
Even Fitzroy made the finals 1/2 dozen times in their last 15 or 20 years.
We really do need success soon, as 20 year old supporters in the 60's and 70's now have grand children they might of been able to brain wash their kids ;D but unless we have success soon the grand kids will be lost.
I know that I was very upset with the way Matty Knights was treated last year.
What that guy did in the 95 final against the bombers was fantastic, and is about all that we have been able to hang our hat on. He should of got better treatment than that, by both the club and some of our supporters.
Instead we had guys like Sziller and Hudson running around. Thats what I mean by the lack of direction that we have had, fancy giving Hudson, Jack Dyers number They want us supporters to be loyal, and so we should, but how about the club showing a bit of respect.
After living and working in the North West Of W.a for the last 20 years, my membership being nothing more than a donation, it's the first time I've felt like giving the Tigers away.
Any how that's enough of my emotional diatribe.

p.s Wasn't it great to see the weagles get flogged yesterday. I've copped some *smile* from them over the years, i give you the drum. Revenge will be a dish best served cold.

CARN THE TIGES!!!!

 

[Koalalill]

I think there is fine line between what may be perceived as bagging for the sake of it and passion for our team.

After 20 years of disappointment people are frustrated and want change. Granted we all have very different views on how we should and are going to achieve it but at the end of the day we all desperately want the same thing.

I agree with you regarding Duncan Kellaway. As I posted with my votes this week it saddens me to say it but I honestly believe he should give it away. I want to remember him for all the good things not as some bloke who went one season too long. He should been shown the respect he deserves. I also agree regarding Rogers - he has been a terrific servant of the Club but he maybe in the same boat as Duncan and gone on 1 season too long.

Richo - personally I think he is absolutely fantastic. His passion and love for the Club at times appears to be his greatest crime. But despite everything he cops from the media and supporters he never waivers from putting the Club first. Some people are probably thinking KL's on her dog's valium but the work he does for the Club, on the training track and away for the Club is simply amazing.

Omarkum, in the past I have been in awe of people who have had the privledge of wearing that famous jumper. Sadly, there are some today who don't show that jumper the repsect it so clearly deserves and that disappoints, frustrates and above all else angers me. And it is this anger that has led me to be extremely critical of some (or 1 in particular) in the past few weeks

 

[TigerMasochist]

Good one Omarkum, even though most of us get fairly bent out of shape over the way our tiges struggle , I expected when I got into this site to see a lot more respect and I think considered discussions as to the good and bad aspects of the side. I've been a supporter since 1967 and a member since the S.O.S. rally and while everyone chucks a hissy fit every now and again I beleive the whole idea was to support the club in all aspects. Some of the posters I've read seem intent on nothing more than slinging *smile* on every one and everything at the club. It's been great to see your message and the other comments from some of the users.thanks heaps.

 

[Omarkum]

Thank you for your replies....I hope their are a few more.

Koalalill, you seem to agree with three quarters of what I wrote and I no problems with any of your criticisms of Joel Bowden or others. However I do differ strongly when you say there is a" fine line between a perceived bagging for the sake of it and passion for our team". I think there is a Chasm.

For passion to acheive its desired result It must strive for balance and respect...someone maybe no good for us anymore but dont talk of them like they were dirt. I can say and do,that Joel Bowden has been atrocious and his time has come but I dont forget that he is a Richmond person or fail remember his good work. I will be sorry that it has come to this and sorry to see him go.

Rosy, I respect the work you have done greatly I really do but It irks me that you would take the comments I made to be a cry for " placid supporters " or an indication of some preference for " chardonay sippers, who clap politely behind glass ". I was speaking of people who seem to exclusively speak with vitriol and contempt ...not JUST in the heat of battle but as a preferred option and in thought out posts to this site.

In your response you make the constant abuse hurlers into a ...."vocal supporters who let their opinions be known and are also the ones with the power to fire the team up and get the team over the line". Unlike we , lovers of the chardonnay set. ( Personally I loave their taste in wine and the sippers themselves.) Frankly I go berserk at the footy and occassionally be come more abusive than I would like to admit....but heck that's footy ...its life.

It also bothered me that you had nothing to say in support of anything I said...nothing...not even to defend Kellaway against uncaring criticism.

Wether our supporters are worse than others in this is probably a digression from what is important. Our club has a long history finding scapegoats for more deeply rooted problems...we scream kill the bastard...instead of searching for the real cause...thats how we got where we are....It is a known Richmond trait and it is why as Tigermasochist says no other coach wanted to know us and why so many administrations went the sack and hope for a saviour route..every time they sacked someone it gave them another year of two.


Richmond supporters are the most passionate, I love that, they get angry and say what they think, I love that,they are the best stickers in football ( who else would have 25,000 members after they had been the worst team for 20 years )....lets just fight to get balance back into the picture and against vitriol and contempt as the prefered option...I think that is how we can truly support Richmond and anything else that we truely feel about.

As the Greg Champion song goes .." There's a lot of people care about Richmond "

ON VICTORY WE THRIVE , JUST EAT EM' ALIVE

Omarkum

ps. none of this is to support Danny whom I personally like but who with other commitee members has made totally unfathomable decisions.

 

[Rosy]

Rosy, I respect the work you have done greatly I really do but It irks me that you would take the comments I made to be a cry for " placid supporters "

Thank you Omarkum, I'm glad you appreciate the site. The fact that I made it has nothing to do with my views and comments on the board though.
They are done as rosy the person, not rosy the admin.

I guess I based my post on the following comment.

I have lost track of the number of times I have heard opposition supporters talk of their disgust at the bagging so many SO CALLED Richmond supporters give to their own players. When we going good we ROAR, we we are going bad we stick it into our own. Great, real great.

That gave me the opinion you think Richmond supporters are worse than others because of the way opposition fans talk about us. Maybe I mistook your message? I am of the opinion that all teams have that element and I don't like the thought of us claiming it as a Richmond exclusive. I don't like hearing anyone sticking it into the players no matter what team they are from, and no matter if they are Richo or Richard Lounder. Well maybe Libberator deserved it, ha. ;D

It also bothered me that you had nothing to say in support of anything I said...nothing...not even to defend Kellaway against uncaring criticism.

I didn't even think to comment on the players you mentioned. I don't get into all the trade talk and speculation. I read it with interest but it's all to hypothetical for me. I don't know what will happen with the Bowdens or Rogers of the team.

I've been on the message boards for several years with some of these people now. Mightytiges, Laff, Diggles, TigerFurious, Fireman_Sam, DraggaFan, TigerGoddess, Deano etc etc etc. They know what I think of Duncan Kellaway. I've defended him to the hilt for years. The more I defend him the more he's trolled to stir me and I end up saying the same thing over and over again. I choose to ignore it most of the time.
I don't necessarily agree with your assessment that his career is at the end either.
I don't agree that he's been as bad as everyones posted the last two weeks. He was given a job to do and did it well. Look at the stats of the players he was on.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Dunc in Richmond colours again next year.

I won't even start about Richo. I hate the way he cops it, and I'm not too keen on the way he dishes it out either.

I hate mindless bagging as much as anyone. I made my opinion clear on that a couple of months ago when every post seemed to be bagging Danny with the same comments repeated ad nauseum. The funny thing is I think the spud mashers are actually wining the debate now because they actually give reasons behind their thinking. The pro Spud brigade like to jump on people who say anything about Danny, but then only come up with the previous history and saving face argument rather than to offer positives about Danny over the last 4 years.

I'm interested to hear opinions from both sides of the fence.

There are also people on this site who only post to bag other posters without offering opinions themself. That's not a lot different from bagging the club.

I find the best policy is to ignore outright trolls. The more attention they get the more they bag. People critisise them then feed right into their hands.

Others have chosen to leave this site because of the bagging. That's fair enough, each to their own. Personally I'd prefer to stay and fly the flag.

It's all about tolerance I think. Putting your own views across and being open to consider others as well.

Message boards and football games are places where there are a myriad of opinions and personalities. They could be places where everyone is nice and polite and says the right thing, but I doubt they ever will.

Go The Mighty Tigers, and go Duncan Kellaway......All aboard the 2004 express.

 

[shawry]

I made to be a cry for " placid supporters " or an indication of some preference for " chardonay sippers, who clap politely behind glass ".

Sounds like Crows supporters. Teh yare the ultimate chardonnay sippers.

ps. none of this is to support Danny whom I personally like but who with other commitee members has made totally unfathomable decisions.

I am wiht you in liking danny.

 

[Omarkum]

Thanks for your reply Rosy, I thought that you felt this way and that is why I was shocked you seemed keener to defend the " kill the bastard " crowd than acknowlege some sympathy for balance and respect.

My hope through all of this was to bring out the best in Tiger supporters......my concern is that the blind fury and bloodlust of some of our supporters has been in part responsible for stampeding weak administrations into kneejerk reactions .....and hence my question , " How do we really support Richmond ". I think the present admin is trying to go against that pressure....I dont know if they are doing a great job of it for sure but there are some good things happening.

I am a little supprised there have only been four people respond to this question ........I expected the " abuser's by preference ", to attack me for being a chardonnay sipper...

best regards
Omarkum

 

[Omarkum]

Still hoping for some opinions....

 

[Dean3]

To be honest Omarkum, I’m exhausted from trying to defend the club and their current direction. One can only take so much mindless bagging and spud mashing, as Rosy so aptly puts it.

It is in the interests of the spud bashers to characterise him as a hopeless hillybilly fresh off the spud farm. This is a caricature invented by the bashers to suit there own ends. I don’t think it hurts to put forward a more rounded version of events and people. But I’m tired of it. I can’t be bothered responding to pure bagging anymore, because it’s obvious their minds are set.

I think it is important for the club to hold firm against the howlings of the vocal pack. The club has bowed to the pack too often in the past. They’ve given the players an excuse to be bad for too long. Clubs with losing cultures continually knife the coach and players can be comfortable in the knowledge that the coach will ultimately take the fall for their failings. This is the culture that the current administration is trying to resist. I hope that they stick to their guns and I hope that Danny sticks it out too. Threats of membership drops and other financial problems should not sway the decision about the coach — that would be just as wrong as only keeping Danny for the sake of saving face. On the contrary I think the club would start to attract new members if it took action to rebuild the list, stated a clear direction and held firm on the coach. It would be a refreshing change for many disillusioned Richmond supporters.

No, saving face is not the reason we should be sticking with Danny Frawley. It is about building a culture off the field that doesn’t put up with mediocre performances on it (cue the baggers!). It is not about Danny, or Hutchy or Crocker or Spargo or Flea or any one person. It’s about rebuilding a club and a culture, virtually from the ground up. Richmond’s past problems have always gone deeper than the coach — much deeper. I think it is more important than ever that we bed down the changes that we have been making off the field without also sacking the coach and, once again, overhauling the football department and, once again, letting the players know that their performances this season have been the coach’s fault. It is time that we matured as a club, and worked to stabilise the foundations instead of first demolishing the top floor because it has started to crack. Only when those elements are in place is it possible for anyone – be it player, coach, membership manager or bootstudder – to fully express themselves, and make good decisions, in a positive and supportive environment.

I don’t pretend that this way forward is without fault, or that Danny Frawley is a supercoach, or that there won’t be setbacks along the way. I just feel that, all things considered, this is our best option.

So, Omarkum, I will support Richmond by backing the current administration in their quest to change the wrongs of the past 20 years. I will buy my membership and I will attend our games and I will cheer them on. And I will encourage my sons, and fellow supporters, to do the same because I believe that is what a true supporter should do.

 

[TigerFurious]

Well said Dean.

I still think Danny's a dud and the team won't improve until he's gone but still well said.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Omarkum and Dean, well said both of you. I'm glad that there are a few others out there that realise the entire club needs to rebuild the culture . The whole problem for 20 odd years has been one of fudge things and get by as best we can,partly caused by a weak admin a lack of money/members back in the S.O.S. days an average playing list and an almost non existent football department and a lot of rookie coaches. Back this up with a seriously pissed off supporter base that is sick of waitng and you can guarantee it hits the fan on a regular basis.

It seems like Case and the rest of the board finally decided to try to rebuild things when they appointed spud as coach ( he did most of the development work with the young guys at collingwood ) and his main theme was to grow and develop both the playing list and the culture of the club no short term fix. There seems to have been a stack of work done getting the football department set up properly theres a good bunch of young kids have done their 2/3 year apprenticeships and a fairly good senior core (some may disagree ) Where we run into serious problems and there are two major sections to this is that
1/ A soft foot ball/admin area has allowed player managers to do top notch deals for reasonably good players ensuring a short player list
2/ A core of mid range/fringe players unable to step up to regular senior spots.

With a bit of judicious trading or recontracting, a delisting of a few players who aren't developing and maybe a retirement or two, we should be able to pick up some reasonable talent to progress with.

As for spud the coach I have no idea if hes any good or not simply because the whole club much as I love em has been ordinary for years. If we ever get everyone and everything all heading in the same direction at the same time , who knows what might happen.

Brisbanes admin/ players/coach ing dept

are all excellent where were they a few years ago?
essendons admin/players/coaching dept are all excellent , 4flags and lots of finals since our last one

The hawks kangas weagles and crows have all been right up there over the last 20 odd years for the same reason while the mighty tigers have been going around in circles biting themselves on arse.

 

[tigerman]

I agree that we have what seems to be a very good administration.
I hope that this administration gets things right.

If you want culture, you can have as much stability as you like, it's success that breeds culture.

It gets up my nose a bit about us being, so called sack the coach happy.
Sure in the early to mid 80's we were.

Since the eagles have been around they have had 5 coaches. Alexander, Todd, Malthouse, Judge and Worsfold.
In the same time we have had 7. Jewell, Bartlett, Jeanes, Northy, Walls, Gieschen and Frawley.

If you take Jeanes out of the equation as he retired after one year because of health reasons. We have only had one more coach than the eagles.
They have won 2 premierships and made the finals 10 years in a row.
They have not been afraid to make a change if they think that they have the wrong coach.
Through out it all they have had a good administration quality people like Brian Cook and Trevor Nisbett etc .

When Spud was first appointed i was quite happy as he has alot of good qualities that I admire.
I am now not so sure whether he has the ability to be a quality coach.

If the club believe he is the man for the job I'll go along with it. In the admin I will trust.

If we don't get things right soon we will have a supporter base like the dogs, demons etc.

Melbourne were unbeatable in the 50's and early 60's, and now with no success for 40 years, they wouldn't be around if it wasn't for Gutnik.

 

[TigerFurious]

When Spud was first appointed i was quite happy as he has alot of good qualities that I admire.
I am now not so sure whether he has the ability to be a quality coach.

I remember Spuds first press conference as Richmond coach just after he was appointed. I thought at the time he spoke very well and said some good things but I wonder what happened since. ???

 

[bazza]

He's obviously has no concept of his limitations which aren't that high to start with.
Jeez I hate him.

 

[Rosy]

WARNING Deep and meaningful rosy ahead. ;D

I got the following verse yesterday from a friend who's son died tragically young.

Perhaps you sent a lovely card
Or sat quietly in a chair
Perhaps you sent beautiful flowers
If so we saw them there
Perhaps you sent or spoke kind words
As any friend would say
Perhaps you were not there at all
Just thought of us that day
Whatever you did to console our hearts
We thank you so much
.....whatever the part

It made me think about the "How do we support Richmond?" title of this thread.

There are all levels of support and we should never judge anyones efforts as better or less than our own.

Maybe people can't afford a membership, maybe they don't go to games, maybe they don't wear club colours. Perhaps they don't talk about our recent track record with great happiness.

As long as people hold Richmond dear in their heart and follow the team in some little way it's good.

If some are abusive or overly vocal at times maybe we shouldn't abuse them back but channel our energy towards encouraging people to get behind the club.

To me that doesn't mean you have to only post positive things on here though. I believe in freedom of speech and telling things as you see them.

I don't think we should judge others against our own values but instead work harder to get support for the club ourselves.

Life's short....Hurry up and get on track and win a premiership Richmond.

End of rant. ;D

R.I.P. J :'(

 

[Tigerblood]

Just one very minor point. Tigerman, you laud Knighter for what he did in that one final, and in the next sentence bag Sziller. Did you see the 2001 final vs Carlton? Sziller had a blinder, destroying Camporeale and doing lots of positive things himself. If you are going to go the high horse about respect for players, remember to do the same yourself. No matter what you think about the wisdom of recruiting him (and I think it was OK given that it was something like no. 99 in the draft), he put in big time for the jumper and won a final.

 

[tigerman]

Tigerblood

I'm not bagging Sziller or Hudson as players or people I'm having ago at the club for drafting them.

If you go into my profile and check my previous 60 odd posts you will find that I never bag our players.

I always support players who wear the YELLOW AND BLACK.

Chris Newman was our 5th round pick at 55 in the 2000 draft. Sziller was our 6th pick at 57. I wish the club had picked up another Chris Newman.

Steven Sziller did play a blinder against Camporeale, and I was supporting him.

 

[Koalalill]

To be honest Omarkum, I’m exhausted from trying to defend the club and their current direction. One can only take so much mindless bagging and spud mashing, as Rosy so aptly puts it.

It is in the interests of the spud bashers to characterise him as a hopeless hillybilly fresh off the spud farm. This is a caricature invented by the bashers to suit there own ends. I don’t think it hurts to put forward a more rounded version of events and people. But I’m tired of it. I can’t be bothered responding to pure bagging anymore, because it’s obvious their minds are set.

I think it is important for the club to hold firm against the howlings of the vocal pack. The club has bowed to the pack too often in the past. They’ve given the players an excuse to be bad for too long. Clubs with losing cultures continually knife the coach and players can be comfortable in the knowledge that the coach will ultimately take the fall for their failings. This is the culture that the current administration is trying to resist. I hope that they stick to their guns and I hope that Danny sticks it out too. Threats of membership drops and other financial problems should not sway the decision about the coach — that would be just as wrong as only keeping Danny for the sake of saving face. On the contrary I think the club would start to attract new members if it took action to rebuild the list, stated a clear direction and held firm on the coach. It would be a refreshing change for many disillusioned Richmond supporters.

No, saving face is not the reason we should be sticking with Danny Frawley. It is about building a culture off the field that doesn’t put up with mediocre performances on it (cue the baggers!). It is not about Danny, or Hutchy or Crocker or Spargo or Flea or any one person. It’s about rebuilding a club and a culture, virtually from the ground up. Richmond’s past problems have always gone deeper than the coach — much deeper. I think it is more important than ever that we bed down the changes that we have been making off the field without also sacking the coach and, once again, overhauling the football department and, once again, letting the players know that their performances this season have been the coach’s fault. It is time that we matured as a club, and worked to stabilise the foundations instead of first demolishing the top floor because it has started to crack. Only when those elements are in place is it possible for anyone – be it player, coach, membership manager or bootstudder – to fully express themselves, and make good decisions, in a positive and supportive environment.

I don’t pretend that this way forward is without fault, or that Danny Frawley is a supercoach, or that there won’t be setbacks along the way. I just feel that, all things considered, this is our best option.

So, Omarkum, I will support Richmond by backing the current administration in their quest to change the wrongs of the past 20 years. I will buy my membership and I will attend our games and I will cheer them on. And I will encourage my sons, and fellow supporters, to do the same because I believe that is what a true supporter should do.

Thanks Dean3 - exactly what I have been trying to say over the past few weeks but couldn't get all the words out - so to speak.