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FRAWLEY TO COACH IN 2004
- Thread starter The Boss
- Start date
tell me this is some bad dream!!! Someones SICK joke!!
Please oh please.
The only good thing that can come out of this is the fact that i know from now at least that we wont be lpaying finals next year so no need to get excited and upset. Just sit back and watch the frawley circus with his clowns perform for us.
We will be back on this topic next year after we do the exact same things over and over again.
Please oh please.
The only good thing that can come out of this is the fact that i know from now at least that we wont be lpaying finals next year so no need to get excited and upset. Just sit back and watch the frawley circus with his clowns perform for us.
We will be back on this topic next year after we do the exact same things over and over again.
Dean- I like the fact that you are thinking for the future and are pro stability- as i am at heart- but FRawley is not a 1st year coach; he has had a pretty good crack really, and at the end of the day a coach is also responsible for performance and recruiting- which i don't think has been much chop. The coach should see out the year, i agree, but beyond that the club should assess its options, which it has given up the right to do!
I am still amazed.
Frawleydud, don't top yourself yet, they can still sack him, it will just cost us heaps more money- that's all. And if they do, Greg Milller will be catching the same train out of town, then we will be in a real mess.
God i love richmond...
I am still amazed.
Frawleydud, don't top yourself yet, they can still sack him, it will just cost us heaps more money- that's all. And if they do, Greg Milller will be catching the same train out of town, then we will be in a real mess.
God i love richmond...
Dean, it is the coaches job to hold the players accountable.
If Frawley can't get enough out of Richo and Bowden etc or keeps selecting King, Biddiscombe, Rogers etc and the team continually fails like it does now then he deserves to go.
Frawley went for the short term fix, failed and should suffer the consequences not be given more assistance, contract extensions or more pay.
P.S. Forgot to add, Dean mentioned Cogs, Rodan, Newman, Zantuck and Krack as good recruiting. Well you overlook Fiora, Poyas, Homewood, Mills, Pettifer, Hyde(twice). Thats not a 60% success rate.
If Frawley can't get enough out of Richo and Bowden etc or keeps selecting King, Biddiscombe, Rogers etc and the team continually fails like it does now then he deserves to go.
Frawley went for the short term fix, failed and should suffer the consequences not be given more assistance, contract extensions or more pay.
P.S. Forgot to add, Dean mentioned Cogs, Rodan, Newman, Zantuck and Krack as good recruiting. Well you overlook Fiora, Poyas, Homewood, Mills, Pettifer, Hyde(twice). Thats not a 60% success rate.
Tigerfurious is correct I think, in that Frawley to the jump by getting Prime (read over the hill) player such as Sziller, Hudson and other rejects instead of concentrating on youth. It was a punt that failed. It was his choice and he should be accountable. How do we know that he is not going to draft another Hudson next year? He does not seem to be youth oriented, and his development skills suck.
Too. ... furious.... to.. go .... on.... ;D
Too. ... furious.... to.. go .... on.... ;D
I was merely responding to the claim that 'no new talent' had emerged since Danny took over. I don't think that is true. Plus he has presided over the development of a number of our top players.
I think it is probably true that Danny (and those around him) misjudged the list at the end of 2001, in that the recruiting following that year was aimed at topping up the list to win a flag rather than at rebuilding a list that wasn't up to it. Sure, we are paying the price for that now, but it was a close judgement call at the time, and it is very simple for people to criticise that call with the benefit of 18 months hindsight. I wish we were all as clever.
Those decisions notwithstanding, I still believe that Danny shows promise as an AFL coach. He is willing to learn, take on board criticism and act accordingly. He is still an inexperienced coach, and to sack him now would be to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Having said that, if we don't clean out the list at the end of this season then I'll quickly lose faith. What Richmond, and Danny, needs now is support to do what is necessary with our playing list, not people on the sidelines baying for his blood. That ain't gonna improve things one iota.
I think it is probably true that Danny (and those around him) misjudged the list at the end of 2001, in that the recruiting following that year was aimed at topping up the list to win a flag rather than at rebuilding a list that wasn't up to it. Sure, we are paying the price for that now, but it was a close judgement call at the time, and it is very simple for people to criticise that call with the benefit of 18 months hindsight. I wish we were all as clever.
Those decisions notwithstanding, I still believe that Danny shows promise as an AFL coach. He is willing to learn, take on board criticism and act accordingly. He is still an inexperienced coach, and to sack him now would be to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Having said that, if we don't clean out the list at the end of this season then I'll quickly lose faith. What Richmond, and Danny, needs now is support to do what is necessary with our playing list, not people on the sidelines baying for his blood. That ain't gonna improve things one iota.
P
PuntRoadRoar
Guest
Its really simple guys,
Sack the players this year that need to be sacked and make the right choices when recruiting instead of picking hack players at the end of their careers.
Then next year if we still fail then sack frawley at the end of 2004. Talk of re-signing him early next year is silly especially if we fail this year and fail next year. I mean 5 years as coach without success is a good enough reason to get rid of him.
You never know we might win all the games for the rest of the year take the cup and dominate next year then we will all be kissing the spud's backside
Go Tiges !!!!
Sack the players this year that need to be sacked and make the right choices when recruiting instead of picking hack players at the end of their careers.
Then next year if we still fail then sack frawley at the end of 2004. Talk of re-signing him early next year is silly especially if we fail this year and fail next year. I mean 5 years as coach without success is a good enough reason to get rid of him.
You never know we might win all the games for the rest of the year take the cup and dominate next year then we will all be kissing the spud's backside
Go Tiges !!!!
Dean3 said:
A slight twist on what I was meaning Deano but I don't necessarily agree with that anyway. Not saying it's the case, but imagine if the coach didn't have what it takes, or the faith of the players etc.
As a member of the club I'd expect all reasons for failure to be considered, players or otherwise.
Anyway remove Danny from my post so it's not personal. There is always a lot that can happen in half a season and I find it strange to alter contracts when not necessary.
Why not let them run their coarse and leave options there that had previously been agreed to. We didn't know about them and they certainly didn't need to be made public.
I wasn't talking about sacking Danny at all. (Though honouring a get out clause for a reason isn't sacking imo.)
Bringing Danny back into the equation, doesn't it concern you that there are plans afoot to renegotiate his contract early next season? I for one hope nothing is signed until late in the season so options are kept open.
What Clinton Casey says now, and what the board does this time next season are not related in the football world, rosy. Of course he is going to make statements that publicly show confidence in the current coaching staff. Imagine the media fiasco that would descend on Tigerland (a la Schwab) if Casey said something that intimated that the coach was on shaky ground, however small that intimation might be.
So I am not at all concerned that Miller or whoever says that they'll start negotiations on a new contract with Danny early next year. That's the kind of support that Frawley needs and has every right to expect from the administration. Anyone that suggests that AFL coaches aren't under pressure to perform (without all the contractual incentives etc etc) has obviously never been near a footy club, let alone coached a team.
From my experience in people management (and I've had a bit), very few respond well to negative pressure. Most respond well to positive support and incentives.
So I am not at all concerned that Miller or whoever says that they'll start negotiations on a new contract with Danny early next year. That's the kind of support that Frawley needs and has every right to expect from the administration. Anyone that suggests that AFL coaches aren't under pressure to perform (without all the contractual incentives etc etc) has obviously never been near a footy club, let alone coached a team.
From my experience in people management (and I've had a bit), very few respond well to negative pressure. Most respond well to positive support and incentives.
Hmm maybe they do read the messageboards and are waiting a year for Leigh Matthews to come out of contract with Brisbane. :-X
I have already said I agree with Dean3. I have said on previous posts that I am pleased to actually see our Club standing firm together (from the board to the Boot Studder) for a change. Finally "short term fixes" are being replaced with "long-term strategies". The Football Department is being run by someone with experience and expertise. Even the board has realised that the resources were not in place since Danny's appointment. The have bought in the best people. They are spending the money rather saying "oh we will look at that next year" Isn't that what we have been crying out for, for the last 20 years?
I sometimes feel that the one thing that used to set us apart from other Clubs in the 70's has been our achilles heel over thelast 20 years - ruthlessness. Over the last 20 years decisions have been made based on things like panic rather than what is in the best interest of the team. "Our membership will drop" - sack the caoch that'll fix it. "we are not competitive" - we'll sack the coach that'll fix it. Clearly over the last 20 years it hasn't fixed it. Sacking another one wont fix it this time either.
It is our list that is the problem and whether we want to admit it or not some of those problems are pre-Danny. We have been hamstrung by fat contracts given to players that didn't warrant them. Hopefully this will rectified at season end.
People argue that players like Bidders, King etc shouldn't be in the team. What are the other options? Playing kids that aren't ready, who end up getting hammered and then we all sit in judgement and "see more duds". As for the contracts: Bidders and King (he is in the final year of a 2 year deal) were given those coming off career best years.
When Greg Miller arrived he was adamant that we were 3 years off being a contender and that was his plan. I don't think at any point this season we have been lead to believe that plan has changed. Many people have posted on this sight that if the Club has a clear plan then they would be happy to take a few years of pain to get the ultimate reward. They have the plan and are trying to implement it, we are being given what we have asked for - let's see how 2004 goes.
I sometimes feel that the one thing that used to set us apart from other Clubs in the 70's has been our achilles heel over thelast 20 years - ruthlessness. Over the last 20 years decisions have been made based on things like panic rather than what is in the best interest of the team. "Our membership will drop" - sack the caoch that'll fix it. "we are not competitive" - we'll sack the coach that'll fix it. Clearly over the last 20 years it hasn't fixed it. Sacking another one wont fix it this time either.
It is our list that is the problem and whether we want to admit it or not some of those problems are pre-Danny. We have been hamstrung by fat contracts given to players that didn't warrant them. Hopefully this will rectified at season end.
People argue that players like Bidders, King etc shouldn't be in the team. What are the other options? Playing kids that aren't ready, who end up getting hammered and then we all sit in judgement and "see more duds". As for the contracts: Bidders and King (he is in the final year of a 2 year deal) were given those coming off career best years.
When Greg Miller arrived he was adamant that we were 3 years off being a contender and that was his plan. I don't think at any point this season we have been lead to believe that plan has changed. Many people have posted on this sight that if the Club has a clear plan then they would be happy to take a few years of pain to get the ultimate reward. They have the plan and are trying to implement it, we are being given what we have asked for - let's see how 2004 goes.
exactly koalalill.unlike the sack the coach committee who cant see past there nose,s the fact is our history regarding the treatment did bite us when spud was appointed.spud knows likeall the football world he wasnt even in the top 3 choices but took on the job that NO ONE WANTED.sure he has made mistakes along the way but what we need is for a stabalised club that for far too long the players ruled the club.
for once danny and greg miller can sit down and look at the playing list and recruit accordingly without the likes of the daffy.bourke contracts hanging over there heads etc.
this statement about the clause taken out is the strongest indication so far that finally the coach isnt the one who will be blamed.
stabilty=success.
for once danny and greg miller can sit down and look at the playing list and recruit accordingly without the likes of the daffy.bourke contracts hanging over there heads etc.
this statement about the clause taken out is the strongest indication so far that finally the coach isnt the one who will be blamed.
stabilty=success.
I am a bit in 2 minds on this one so will list them as;
Pros
* It gives Danny a chance to keep trying to develop the side the way he wants to, without the pressure of facing unemployment.
* The club is opting for stability instead of emplosion
* Maybe the powers finally realise that the list needs a total overhaul and will plan to give Danny the best possible list to work with.
* Club has put the onus back the underperforming players
Cons
* Lets Danny off the hook for the poor recruiting/list/style of play that he has overseen in his four years.
* Unless Danny has a total game plan overhaul, we will still remain predictable to all clubs and therefor beatable more often than not.
I won't sit on the fence, so I will say I am happy for Danny to stay on for 2004, and I am also happy for the club to change the list in any way they see fit to help us improve.
I will always bow to the judgement of Greg Miller, as he is one bloke (the only bloke at RFC) who has been there and done that in a successful club.
But, if 2004 produces the same old *smile* as 02/03, then off with your head Danny.
Pros
* It gives Danny a chance to keep trying to develop the side the way he wants to, without the pressure of facing unemployment.
* The club is opting for stability instead of emplosion
* Maybe the powers finally realise that the list needs a total overhaul and will plan to give Danny the best possible list to work with.
* Club has put the onus back the underperforming players
Cons
* Lets Danny off the hook for the poor recruiting/list/style of play that he has overseen in his four years.
* Unless Danny has a total game plan overhaul, we will still remain predictable to all clubs and therefor beatable more often than not.
I won't sit on the fence, so I will say I am happy for Danny to stay on for 2004, and I am also happy for the club to change the list in any way they see fit to help us improve.
I will always bow to the judgement of Greg Miller, as he is one bloke (the only bloke at RFC) who has been there and done that in a successful club.
But, if 2004 produces the same old *smile* as 02/03, then off with your head Danny.
Along with extending Danny's contract they should also go to the AFL seeking handouts. People have had enough of frawdudly and will not re-sign - expect membership numbers to be below 20,000.
Actually I am not surprised with such an article - it shows exactly what RFC are about. A conservative club that has no idea on how to achieve success.
Are Miller and co. gonna support this statement when we don't win more than 2 more games for the rest of the season. When we finish 8 and 14 come year end. when we finish 12th. How can they justify extending frankensteins contract let alone honoring it till the end of 2004.
If this is the case expect more of the same for next year and for all those supporting frawdudly now can you please keep supporting him next year and beyong when he completely buries our club both on field and financially. At least this will give a few of us more time and pleasure in bagging herman munster.
Actually I am not surprised with such an article - it shows exactly what RFC are about. A conservative club that has no idea on how to achieve success.
Are Miller and co. gonna support this statement when we don't win more than 2 more games for the rest of the season. When we finish 8 and 14 come year end. when we finish 12th. How can they justify extending frankensteins contract let alone honoring it till the end of 2004.
If this is the case expect more of the same for next year and for all those supporting frawdudly now can you please keep supporting him next year and beyong when he completely buries our club both on field and financially. At least this will give a few of us more time and pleasure in bagging herman munster.
How many times must I say this.
Every player currently on the list has been through at least one contract under Frawley. This includes Biddiscombe, King, Bourke, Rogers etc plus Richmond had the chance to offload Daffy at the end of 2000 but Frawley got cold feet.
You cannot blame anyone else for the state of the list except one Danial Frawley who as senior coach must rubber stamp all trades and contracts and ultimately decides who will stay and who will go.
It doesn't matter that a few close calls (Hudson, Sziller etc) went against him, the fact remains that they did not work out and Frawley and company must be help responsible.
Every player currently on the list has been through at least one contract under Frawley. This includes Biddiscombe, King, Bourke, Rogers etc plus Richmond had the chance to offload Daffy at the end of 2000 but Frawley got cold feet.
You cannot blame anyone else for the state of the list except one Danial Frawley who as senior coach must rubber stamp all trades and contracts and ultimately decides who will stay and who will go.
It doesn't matter that a few close calls (Hudson, Sziller etc) went against him, the fact remains that they did not work out and Frawley and company must be help responsible.
Frawley has had 4 years and they are still not even in the hunt infact they can't even play finals let alone push for a flag. This dud has had 4 years and has produced nothing.....removed it because of the pressure in other words a performance based contract that suits him but not the other way around if it doesn't suit.
It is sad to see how frightened they have become I think 4 years is a fair go if they were playing finals on a regular occassion I would say fair enough...the playing list etc is his fault he has had 4 years to build them and has got no where.......this will haunt them this decision because they will start to struggle financially
It is sad to see how frightened they have become I think 4 years is a fair go if they were playing finals on a regular occassion I would say fair enough...the playing list etc is his fault he has had 4 years to build them and has got no where.......this will haunt them this decision because they will start to struggle financially
your statement says more about the club,s supporters than the coach.Harry said:
i buy a membership no matter what.
