Foward Line

[timYCW#7]

I know it’s pretty hard for our forward line when the delivery they are copping is as ugly as it is, but its been disappointing with how it has been working nevertheless. I think that Jack Riewoldt, Jayden Post/David Astbury and Nahas/Roberts/Taylor all need to be used more effectively. I think that:

Riewoldt has a good set of mitts, but is a poor set shot for goal, so I think he needs to be used up around centre half forward and further. We are always struggling once we get to the half back line, Riewoldt up the ground will give us something to kick to there.

With Riewoldt up the ground, this means either Astbury or Post or Polak must be at full forward. Astbury had a good start, but somehow I don't see him, (as a first year player) being able to crash packs and give the crumbers something to crumb off. I would maybe start with him and see how he goes, but otherwise I'd rather have Post up there.

Thirdly, Morton is being used well. If the FF leads to the centre of the forward line, for the easier shot on goal, it will leave space for Morton to lead wider, and he is capable of kicking those wide goals. This is what has been happening so far this year, and I think Morton is doing O.K.

Lastly, we need so much more pressure from within our forward line. You can't fault Hislop here, but his kicking is just so ordinary. Nahas tries hard, but just doesn't have the tackling ability of Hislop. Roberts wasn’t great in this aspect, but I thought Taylor wasn't bad, especially that early tackle to set up the goal. This neeeds to be improved quickly.

Thoughts?

 

[davidrodan]

Would be ideal to play Astbury at CHF but he is way to slight ATM, also Riewoldt IMO is best suited to a third tall/HFF but ATM we need him as a KPF

Therefore our structure now and in the future will change

Now

Morton Riewoldt Astbury
Taylor Gourdis Nahas/Roberts

I know Gourdis is still on the rookie list but I like this structure for now, the small crumbing/defensive forward is still up for grabs


Future

Morton Astbury Riewoldt
Taylor Griffiths Nahas/Roberts

I think Astbury should be the target at HF as he is a very good kick which is important going into the 50, Griffiths can lead up and if there is no options when the ball is kicked to a contest Griffiths is a monster and Reiwoldt a very good contested mark with Taylor and the small crumbing forward will hopefully get the crumbs

I think in the future we should be able to have many forward options as both Gourdis and Post can play forward. Hopefully Astbury gets some experience down back as well as in time I see he and Post swapping at CHF and CHB

 

[TigerFurious]

This constant talk of Riewoldt not being capable of holding down a key forward post and being more suited to a third tall or HFF bemuses me.

For a player who is apparently too slow, too short and not big enough for a key forward post he has done remarkably well in that role so far and has continually improved his output every year with 2010 being no exception.

We'd be very lucky to find another forward who is bigger, stronger and faster than Jack who could have the same impact.

Riewoldt is the least of our concerns right now.

 

[timYCW#7]

I think Riewoldt is more than capable of being a KPF. He certainly isn't too slow, I would have thought that pace would be one of his strengths. He is tall enough, although probably not big enough yet. Muscle comew ith time though, and I certainly think he will be a good KPF for us.

I was more making the point he should be at CHF rather than FF, as we are falling down with the kick from half-back, so he would give us something to kick to, and because he's not a good set shot at goal.

 

[ZeroGame]

I think Riewoldt is more than capable of being a KPF. He certainly isn't too slow, I would have thought that pace would be one of his strengths. He is tall enough, although probably not big enough yet. Muscle comew ith time though, and I certainly think he will be a good KPF for us.

Speed certainly is his weakness, but it's not enough to stop him being a quality forward in time. His reading of the game and smart positioning make up for the lack of pace somewhat.

Just for some perspective

He's just played his 50th game and kicked 65 goals 49 behinds in his career, in comparison after 50 games Nick Riewoldt had kicked 53 goals 37 behinds

In the first 4 games of his 4th season, Jack has averaged 14 disposals, 5.75 marks, 4.25 tackles, 2 goals and 2.75 behinds per game from 4 losses
In the first 4 games of his 4th season, Nick had averaged 16.5 disposals, 9.25 marks, 1 tackle, 2.5 goals and 1.75 behinds per game from 4 wins

Obviously Nick is in front in most areas there, however if Jack would kick the easy set shots he's missed, he wouldn't be far off the mark.
Nick's results were also in a team that won their first 10 matches of the year and went on to make the preliminary final, not one that has lost by 10 goals every week.

 

[shamekha]

i reckon the 2 talls of Jack and Griffiths will work like Nick and Kosy and having Taylor (if he comes on) and Astbury more mobile up the ground would work great.

Morton to crumb deep and someone else to offer midfield help with focus on running forward into the goal kicking zone.

Putting positions in is pointless. Players do not play the historical places anymore.

What i look at is having 1 tall (Griffiths), 2 mobile talls(Jack and Astbury), 2 mid size players that can mark and crumb (Taylor and Morton) and 1 specialist crumber come forward midfielder (could be any number of players).

The advantage we will have in the future is the option of Astbury and Post could play either end and if needed can switch during games. The other is that if one is playing then the other isn't. Depends on how they develop. i see Post as a defender but have that ability to switch as an option.

At this stage i don't think we need to worry about lining them up differently, the team just needs to concentrate on the position that the coaches plan them playing in. The more they get used to it and it will become 2nd nature. They begin to trust each other and play for each other.

Makes me laugh when you have people with their knickers in a knot over this year. Its not about this year. Richmond have finally realised that teams need to sacrifice a year or 2 to get things right. Then it comes together when the boys all mature together.

i can see it now. Richmond v Melbourne Grand Final 2013 ;D

 

[Feeling Tigerish]

i had this as a big "WHATIF" of the future. not counting my chickens before they hatch but just thinking out aloud.

backs: Dea fb: ?(195cm) Mcguane

hb: Webberley Post Connors

C: Deledio Martin Cotchin

hf: Taylor Astbury Riewoldt

f: Nason Griffiths Morton

Foll: Vickery Foley (another gun mid)


i/c newman contin (ruckman) (another mid)


before you shoot me down, i was just crystal balling and clinging to any bit of hope to help me through the tough times

 

[Phar Ace]

Speed certainly is his weakness, but it's not enough to stop him being a quality forward in time. His reading of the game and smart positioning make up for the lack of pace somewhat.

Just for some perspective

He's just played his 50th game and kicked 65 goals 49 behinds in his career, in comparison after 50 games Nick Riewoldt had kicked 53 goals 37 behinds

In the first 4 games of his 4th season, Jack has averaged 14 disposals, 5.75 marks, 4.25 tackles, 2 goals and 2.75 behinds per game from 4 losses
In the first 4 games of his 4th season, Nick had averaged 16.5 disposals, 9.25 marks, 1 tackle, 2.5 goals and 1.75 behinds per game from 4 wins

Obviously Nick is in front in most areas there, however if Jack would kick the easy set shots he's missed, he wouldn't be far off the mark.
Nick's results were also in a team that won their first 10 matches of the year and went on to make the preliminary final, not one that has lost by 10 goals every week.

Thank you Zero :clap, you have confirmed what I thought, and that is we are sometimes expecting too much too soon of Jack. He is tracking well, with the xception of settling on a workable goal kicking routine.

While it's very early days, I was thinking Griffiths was more likely a CHF and Astbury a FF - admittedly this was more body size based than anything else, but I liked the obvious speed and smarts of what I've seen in the two games of Dave Astbury. I remember so many liking it in Hughes too after his first couple 8)

 

[Barnzy]

i had this as a big "WHATIF" of the future. not counting my chickens before they hatch but just thinking out aloud.

backs: Dea fb: ?(195cm) Mcguane

hb: Webberley Post Connors

C: Deledio Martin Cotchin

hf: Taylor Astbury Riewoldt

f: Nason Griffiths Morton

Foll: Vickery Foley (another gun mid)


i/c newman contin (ruckman) (another mid)


before you shoot me down, i was just crystal balling and clinging to any bit of hope to help me through the tough times

8 of those players were taken in the same draft. I know you were just crystal balling but the chance of all them making it is next to nothing. 3-5 AFL standard players out of the 14 taken would be a good result. Some food for thought.

 

[Feeling Tigerish]

[/quote]

8 of those players were taken in the same draft. I know you were just crystal balling but the chance of all them making it is next to nothing. Some food for thought.

oh well, so much for that then. i'll still dream though

 

[Phar Ace]

8 of those players were taken in the same draft. I know you were just crystal balling but the chance of all them making it is next to nothing. 3-5 AFL standard players out of the 14 taken would be a good result. Some food for thought.

feeling half empty today Barnzy? :hihi

 

[martyshire]

Speed certainly is his weakness, but it's not enough to stop him being a quality forward in time. His reading of the game and smart positioning make up for the lack of pace somewhat.

... if Jack would kick the easy set shots he's missed, he wouldn't be far off the mark.
...

Big 'if'. He does miss a lot of easy ones. Astbury needs to give him a few lessons

 

[martyshire]

I know it’s pretty hard for our forward line when the delivery they are copping is as ugly as it is, but its been disappointing with how it has been working nevertheless. I think that Jack Riewoldt, Jayden Post/David Astbury and Nahas/Roberts/Taylor all need to be used more effectively. I think that:

Riewoldt has a good set of mitts, but is a poor set shot for goal, so I think he needs to be used up around centre half forward and further. We are always struggling once we get to the half back line, Riewoldt up the ground will give us something to kick to there.

With Riewoldt up the ground, this means either Astbury or Post or Polak must be at full forward. Astbury had a good start, but somehow I don't see him, (as a first year player) being able to crash packs and give the crumbers something to crumb off. I would maybe start with him and see how he goes, but otherwise I'd rather have Post up there.

Thirdly, Morton is being used well. If the FF leads to the centre of the forward line, for the easier shot on goal, it will leave space for Morton to lead wider, and he is capable of kicking those wide goals. This is what has been happening so far this year, and I think Morton is doing O.K.

Lastly, we need so much more pressure from within our forward line. You can't fault Hislop here, but his kicking is just so ordinary. Nahas tries hard, but just doesn't have the tackling ability of Hislop. Roberts wasn’t great in this aspect, but I thought Taylor wasn't bad, especially that early tackle to set up the goal. This neeeds to be improved quickly.

Thoughts?

I agree with most of this. Jack's easy misses hurt us a lot but he has great hands so maybe he is better suited at CHF, or give him a similar licence to what Richo had toward the end of his career.

Meanwhile, unless Lids can learn to shrugg a tag and stamp himself as one of the elite midfielders of the competition, he is a waste of talent. He is also a really effective forward as we have seen a couple of times (explosive pace of 3 steps, great hands, excellent set shot) so he could be a really valuable option up forward. Who knows, we may find ourselves with a forward who can present a lead more than 2 steps in front of his opponent.

...That's a major trouble with our forward line. They either don't have the speed or they don't lead with enough conviction to generate space between themselves and their opponent. The result is the pass needs to be absolutely spot-on to avoid a spoil, which unless Martin has the ball, it won't be.

As for the big bodied forward, unfortunately we don't really have anyone that can crash a pack. Except maybe Simmonds - but he's not very good at sport. It is a genuine hole in our forward line and I guess we have to just try Post (in the hope that he remembers how to catch) and all the other kids, including ruckman, until we find one. Until then, there's no point playing Nahas in the forward line because there will be no crumbs (despite my man crush on him).

 

[Big Cat Lover]

Speed certainly is his weakness, but it's not enough to stop him being a quality forward in time. His reading of the game and smart positioning make up for the lack of pace somewhat.

Just for some perspective

He's just played his 50th game and kicked 65 goals 49 behinds in his career, in comparison after 50 games Nick Riewoldt had kicked 53 goals 37 behinds

In the first 4 games of his 4th season, Jack has averaged 14 disposals, 5.75 marks, 4.25 tackles, 2 goals and 2.75 behinds per game from 4 losses
In the first 4 games of his 4th season, Nick had averaged 16.5 disposals, 9.25 marks, 1 tackle, 2.5 goals and 1.75 behinds per game from 4 wins

Obviously Nick is in front in most areas there, however if Jack would kick the easy set shots he's missed, he wouldn't be far off the mark.
Nick's results were also in a team that won their first 10 matches of the year and went on to make the preliminary final, not one that has lost by 10 goals every week.

Good stats - althouigh I think J Reiwoldt has played closer to FF than Nick in those first 50 games. Jack is doing fine and is capable of playing a key post. Will continue to improve and I'm confident his kicking will get better.

 

[velo]

How long has Gourdis been a rookie?

Seriously how can you put him at full forward when he hasn't been elevated let alone played a senior game.

 

[martyshire]

Good stats - althouigh I think J Reiwoldt has played closer to FF than Nick in those first 50 games. Jack is doing fine and is capable of playing a key post. Will continue to improve and I'm confident his kicking will get better.

Why?

 

[chickenwing]

Jack is exactly the same height as his cousin nick and is only 21 possible he will be taller and heavier than nick so y cant he be a kf ???

 

[Phar Ace]

Why?

Because he will be forced to learn how to improve his accuracy - people, even footballers are not at their learning saturation point by 22 Kicking preparation and implementation routine will do wonders for Jack. he'd be working on one now I would think, and if not - heaven help RFC!

 

[Baloo]

Jack was a good kick in the Burgers when he came down to us. It can't be the routine, it's in his head. Pretty plain to see that when he slots them, he's kicking through the ball. When he duffs them, he's trying to put too much finesse on the kick. Not dissimilar to Richo if you ask me.

 

[martyshire]

Because he will be forced to learn how to improve his accuracy - people, even footballers are not at their learning saturation point by 22 Kicking preparation and implementation routine will do wonders for Jack. he'd be working on one now I would think, and if not - heaven help RFC!

Well I hope so, and I just hope it works. Sadly, I can't think of too many forwards who have improved their goal-kicking significantly during their careers. His cousin certainly hasn't.