FIFA World Cup 22

[mrposhman]

You've obviously got a lot more experience trying to defend your national teams performance in the World Cup than I do, but for me at least it's less about the result and more about how we've been going about it.

Losing 4-1 to the WC Holders isn't so bad. Losing to them 4-1 trying to defend, contain and park a bus across the 18yard box is not what Australian teams are known for. It's not how we, always under skilled and manned, take on the best teams in the world. Losing 4-1 but throwing everything at them, being assertive, hitting tackles hard, pushing and hassling and making their life hell would be acceptable.

If we don't attack, we don't score. In the first game of the World Cup you throw everything out there. Once the first games are done in your group you can start to tinker with a more defensive game if you need to prevent a loss, or a more attacking if you need a win.

The only chance Australia had of getting into the 2nd round of this group is by throwing caution to the wind and just going for it. Try to play a containing game will guarantee we go home on the first flight after our third match.

So if they'd thrown caution to the wind and harassed hard and lost 6-0 for example, would you still have had the same response? Or would you have said something like "we could have had least played more defensive to contain the goals against, if we lose out after 3 games on goal difference I'll spew up".

I've no doubt that if that outcome had occurred and Australia had lost 6-0 but played expansive, people would have complained just as much.

 

[Baloo]

So if they'd thrown caution to the wind and harassed hard and lost 6-0 for example, would you still have had the same response? Or would you have said something like "we could have had least played more defensive to contain the goals against, if we lose out after 3 games on goal difference I'll spew up".

I've no doubt that if that outcome had occurred and Australia had lost 6-0 but played expansive, people would have complained just as much.

Going into the world cup I said it was the weakest team we've sent. I wasn't expecting a win. But I was hoping to make the opposition sweat when they played against us.

 

[mrposhman]

Going into the world cup I said it was the weakest team we've sent. I wasn't expecting a win. But I was hoping to make the opposition sweat when they played against us.

I agree and we should review all 3 games collectively. If they don't come out attacking both Tunisia and Denmark then we should all feel disappointed and angry at the tactics used. Hrustic potentially back on Saturday should help with being more attacking. Hopefully they will play MacLaren too, clearly the most in form striker Australia has.

 

[craig]

 

[Smoking Aces]

I understand what you are getting at, but I suspect they also thought that generally the full backs are a bit suspect, so the higher you press up the field, the higher your defensive line (in order to remain compact) and then the more space you give Mbappe and Dembele.

In what way would you push up? The entire team, leaving your defensive line much further up the field, or push the wingers into more attacking positions to try and push France back, but exposing the full backs to more 1 on 1 battles with Mbappe and Dembele? Mbappe was taking the *smile* out of Atkinson at times, trying to nutmeg him etc, he knew he was a far far better player.

You make it sound like "just pressing up" is super easy and there is no downside. There was a pretty big one, if it meant that Mbappe and Dembele had an even bigger impact on the game.

Mbappe was taking the *smile* because sitting back allowing him free run into space. Pressing up closes the space and doesn’t give them the extra time and space to knock the ball around. It doesn’t leave you exposed if the entire team is in sync. You train for this. You practice it. Clearly it wasn’t a priority as Arnold didnt execute this with the team. He has no game sense and no football nous to counter act the oppositions strength. Doesn’t matter how good you are if you take the space away from the opposition it makes it all that much harder to dominate. I am not saying it would have got us a result but it at least would have made the opposition work for a living.

Sorry Posh but you are making excuses for a coach out of his depth at this level.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Why is the Swiss football team so successful?

The Swiss national football team has experienced great success at EURO 2020 and in World Cup qualifying matches, especially for such a small country - why?

www.iamexpat.ch

Watching Switzerland presently. An intriguing side. Smallish country of only 8-9mil. Haven’t won any big tournaments (nor would I expect them to), but consistently qualify through the toughest confederation AND hold their own at major tournaments once there. Not the most fashionable side that comes to mind, but I very much respect their consistency.

Not like the sport is a religion there either. Sure, no doubt it is among the preeminent sports in Switzerland. But not a national obsession like Croatia - another small country that punches well outside their weight.

Australia, take notes.

 

[spook]

Hear hear Chumpford. We haven't had a manager sacking for ages! Bring it on. (And yes he is a NSW stooge; absolutely).

As for a Scottish Manager; tell us who Chumps? Celtic or Rangers don't even have a Scottish Manager!!

We should get that Celtic manager, he seems pretty good.

 

[MD Jazz]

You missing the point MD.

Its not about taking control of the game and keeping possession like we are a team ranked in the top 10. Its about pushing higher up the field, squeezing up the opposition and limiting their impact on the game. Its called pressure on the ball carrier.

What we witnessed against France, was nothing but that.

It ain’t that simple against quality teams.

Cameroon pushed up the ground against the Swiss. A good first half but lucky not to lose 3-0. The space created by. a turnover when a team pushes higher and plays more attacking
is heaven to good players.

Let’s see how we go against opposition more in our weight class.

 

[Smoking Aces]

We should get that Celtic manager, he seems pretty good.

Ha. He ain’t part of the Sydney boys club.

 

[mrposhman]

Mbappe was taking the *smile* because sitting back allowing him free run into space. Pressing up closes the space and doesn’t give them the extra time and space to knock the ball around. It doesn’t leave you exposed if the entire team is in sync. You train for this. You practice it. Clearly it wasn’t a priority as Arnold didnt execute this with the team. He has no game sense and no football nous to counter act the oppositions strength. Doesn’t matter how good you are if you take the space away from the opposition it makes it all that much harder to dominate. I am not saying it would have got us a result but it at least would have made the opposition work for a living.

Sorry Posh but you are making excuses for a coach out of his depth at this level.

I'm not making excuses for Arnold. I have no vested interest in him at all.

Just on pressing up and Mbappe not having as much of the ball to run at him, had the entire defensive pushed up, the French are generally 1 touch players and would have simply looked for balls chipped over the top to use the pace of Mbappe and Dembele.

You are simplying a lot and assuming pressing up will condense space but France are 1 of the best teams in the world with 1 of the best strikers in the world. To assume pressing them and giving them less space would stop them is nonsense and completely under rating their ability. You don't think Griezmann would have loved to pick those passes off over the top?

 

[Ricemagic]

Why is the Swiss football team so successful?

The Swiss national football team has experienced great success at EURO 2020 and in World Cup qualifying matches, especially for such a small country - why?

www.iamexpat.ch

Watching Switzerland presently. An intriguing side. Smallish country of only 8-9mil. Haven’t won any big tournaments (nor would I expect them to), but consistently qualify through the toughest confederation AND hold their own at major tournaments once there. Not the most fashionable side that comes to mind, but I very much respect their consistency.

Not like the sport is a religion there either. Sure, no doubt it is among the preeminent sports in Switzerland. But not a national obsession like Croatia - another small country that punches well outside their weight.

Australia, take notes.

You'd be surprised their top league has the 6th most attendance average per game in Europe. Young Boys Bern come in with the 9th highest crowd average from all those Euro leagues as well.

The Croatians 4,0000 average crowd, Hajduk Split 16,000. Switzerland major league goes at 13,000 average crowd and Young Boys Bern goes at nearly 29,000.

I think they're probably underestimated because they're in the middle of a few countries.

But those countries are probably part of that mixture of the Swiss makeup that makes them pretty good.

To their left is France, below them is Italy, Austria to the right and above them is Germany. You can't go wrong surrounded by them you'd hope.

Their ethno-linguistic speaking/background is broken up something like 62% speak a Swiss-German dialect, there's a Swiss-French one at 23% and there's Swiss-Italians at 8%. The only countries in Europe they're missing out for big football history are the Spanish and the Netherlands (Okay, england too man ).

They had a big wave of Italians in the early 20th century, stopped by the wars. Kick started again the last few years mainly by English, Portuguese, Serbs, Croatians and Spanish!! Throw in a Brazilian or two and you've got a pretty good mix man

We've got no mixtures around our borders except penguins, whales, sharks and seals!!

 

[Baloo]

I'm not making excuses for Arnold. I have no vested interest in him at all.

Just on pressing up and Mbappe not having as much of the ball to run at him, had the entire defensive pushed up, the French are generally 1 touch players and would have simply looked for balls chipped over the top to use the pace of Mbappe and Dembele.

You are simplying a lot and assuming pressing up will condense space but France are 1 of the best teams in the world with 1 of the best strikers in the world. To assume pressing them and giving them less space would stop them is nonsense and completely under rating their ability. You don't think Griezmann would have loved to pick those passes off over the top?

4 years ago France won the world cup. They were the best team in the world.

4 years ago we were in their group

4 years ago we lost 2-1 but made sure they worked hard for the win.

4 years ago we didn't have Arnold.

This year handed the French a jar of Vaseline in the hope they didn't hurt us too hard while they *smile* us over.

This year we were coached to go into the game expecting to be *smile* over.

As someone that's followed the national team from when I was a kid, it *smile* hurts seeing us play the way we did against France this year. Really hurts.

 

[mrposhman]

4 years ago France won the world cup. They were the best team in the world.

4 years ago we were in their group

4 years ago we lost 2-1 but made sure they worked hard for the win.

4 years ago we didn't have Arnold.

This year handed the French a jar of Vaseline in the hope they didn't hurt us too hard while they *smile* us over.

This year we were coached to go into the game expecting to be *smile* over.

As someone that's followed the national team from when I was a kid, it *smile* hurts seeing us play the way we did against France this year. Really hurts.

Serbia just showed what happens when you push further forward.

1st half they defended very well, very compact, chased and harassed. They go behind and they push that line higher up the pitch and if we are being realistic, Brazil could have scored 5 or 6 in that 2nd half. 2 against the woodwork, keeper made 2 or 3 good saves.

Its all well and good to claim that pushing up would have limited what France would have done, but that assumes they don't have the quality of player to deal with that closer attention. Simple fact is they do.

BTW comparing France v Australia this year to 4 years ago is silly. The Australia team 4 years ago was better than this current team. Not a surprise that they lost by more.

Serious question here, how many goals did you expect to lose to France by before the game? I would have said 3, which is what happened.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Heck of a bicycle kick goal from Brazil's Richarlison. Early front-runner for goal of the tournament.

 

[mrposhman]

BTW is this serious. After beating Argentina, are the Saudis really that unlikely to get a result against Poland?

 

[mrposhman]

Heck of a bicycle kick goal from Brazil's Richarlison. Early front-runner for goal of the tournament.

View attachment 17484

Was outstanding. It shows how good the skills are of some of these guys and the quickness of mind. His 1st touch was pretty poor, to have that goal sense, to reposition his body that quickly to volley it like that, shows his immense quality.

 

[Brodders17]

Why is the Swiss football team so successful?

The Swiss national football team has experienced great success at EURO 2020 and in World Cup qualifying matches, especially for such a small country - why?

www.iamexpat.ch

Watching Switzerland presently. An intriguing side. Smallish country of only 8-9mil. Haven’t won any big tournaments (nor would I expect them to), but consistently qualify through the toughest confederation AND hold their own at major tournaments once there. Not the most fashionable side that comes to mind, but I very much respect their consistency.

Not like the sport is a religion there either. Sure, no doubt it is among the preeminent sports in Switzerland. But not a national obsession like Croatia - another small country that punches well outside their weight.

Australia, take notes.

A friends 9yo nephew plays football in Switzerland. He trains 3/4 times/week plus multiple games, for 40 weeks/year- or something like that, with skilled coaches.
most 9yos in Australia train for 1 hour/week with parents coaching them.
there is a huge discrepancy in the amount, and quality, of football our kids play as opposed to overseas.

 

[mrposhman]

A friends 9yo nephew plays football in Switzerland. He trains 3/4 times/week plus multiple games, for 40 weeks/year- or something like that, with skilled coaches.
most 9yos in Australia train for 1 hour/week with parents coaching them.
there is a huge discrepancy in the amount, and quality, of football our kids play as opposed to overseas.

The central European countries have been doing this for decades. Coming from the UK, I (and many others) in the UK had a similar experience to what it is like in Australia. There was an academy setup in Shropshire called Lilleshall, but it was relatively small and didn't cater for a large number of kids to train. Plus it wasn't local, it was isolated to 1 area of the country and you had to essentially go on a camp there.

England has changed that focus over the last 20 years and now presents similar environments as they do in central europe. Ie. much larger number of kids are now aligned with club academy setups and from a much younger age. England is bearing fruit from that now, there is no reason why Australia couldn't push money into junior setups, this IMO is part of why the A League needs to be stronger, they need much more from the transfer fees for selling players to overseas clubs. I've mentioned on another thread, the Kuol transfer for an upfront $500k to Newcastle in the Premier League. This isn't an each way bet for them, its a pure gamble, if it doesn't pay off what have they lost? They probably pay players like Almiron that amount in a month or 2, so they lose nothing with this transfer, but the Central Coast Mariners and the A league do. If he had stayed till he was 20 and they got say $2-$3m then thats money that can be reinvested in a club youth setup to continue to drive these pathways for kids and provide more money into youth development which is massive for a league such as the A League.

 

[MD Jazz]

Serbia just showed what happens when you push further forward.

1st half they defended very well, very compact, chased and harassed. They go behind and they push that line higher up the pitch and if we are being realistic, Brazil could have scored 5 or 6 in that 2nd half. 2 against the woodwork, keeper made 2 or 3 good saves.

Its all well and good to claim that pushing up would have limited what France would have done, but that assumes they don't have the quality of player to deal with that closer attention. Simple fact is they do.

BTW comparing France v Australia this year to 4 years ago is silly. The Australia team 4 years ago was better than this current team. Not a surprise that they lost by more.

Serious question here, how many goals did you expect to lose to France by before the game? I would have said 3, which is what happened.

Was thinking the same when watching the 2nd half. Brazil took advantage of the space in that 2nd half. Almost looked like scoring every time they went forward. No side can press and chase and harrass for an entire game.

 

[Baloo]

A friends 9yo nephew plays football in Switzerland. He trains 3/4 times/week plus multiple games, for 40 weeks/year- or something like that, with skilled coaches.
most 9yos in Australia train for 1 hour/week with parents coaching them.
there is a huge discrepancy in the amount, and quality, of football our kids play as opposed to overseas.

One thing you learn quickly in Switzerland is that playing on frozen grounds is a lot more painful than Australia's early season/late season sun baked grounds. Sliding tackles are really not a good idea.

When I lived there soccer was the sport and the Swiss are quite passionate about the game. They always struck as a less skilled but equally disciplined German team.