draft sham

[jokershoppe]

What *smile* the academy situation was with some giving up two picks in mid 30, s and getting back pick in the early teen and pick40, the draft collusion was obviously carlton and sos, should be investigated has only reason they completed their 4 player deal.

 

[Feeling Tigerish]

Wish we did it

 

[tigersnake]

Its a tough one. On the one hand the academies, prima facie, should expand the pool of players from peripheral or crossover area, ie instead of 1 or 2 players coming from the Riverina, Brisbane and Sydney, there might be 4-6. On the other hand, it seems a gimme, handful of junk pick downgrades for a top 20 pick. Brisbane essentially got 2 top 20s for the price of one. It doesn't matter ATM because they're a poor side, but it would be hard to take if they weren't. Harder to take with Sydney, being successful, and GWS, who already have a swag of elite young talent.

 

[leon]

Every club would do it if they could, but you don't address the points he makes (referring to rockafella's). Of course, once again it is most of the Melbourne clubs, the financial lifeblood of the code and its backbone, who are made fools of for the benefit of the AFL's northern crusade against the rugby heathens.
The whole basis of the NATIONAL draft system was for all clubs to take picks in their allocated turn based on ladder finishing position, of any young talent from anywhere in the country. So you could be an outback WA boy taken by Brisvegas.
Now, these states have their own academy boys that are virtually pre-owned and guaranteed theirs as long as they give a couple of tokenistic, high picks for them. The values are loaded heavily in their favour,. It is now a corrupted system.
Melbourne teams logical response is to establish their own academies under the same controls. Then a Clayton Oliver could be ours.

 

[wayne]

So say we have say Naish and Broderick and they're both ranked top 10.

Our first pick is 12. We trade this for 19 and 20. Our next pick 30, we send that out for pick 41,42,43.

I'm not sure how many points that would amount to, but something along those lines is how we'd get two top 10 talents for zilch?

 

[jokershoppe]

LOOK at sydney premiers in 2012, grand finalist in 2013, then get heeney, mills, both top 2 mids in their draft years, how the hell do a richmond catch them when they consistently get better players garanteed to them, you could start to build an elite mid based on heeney, mills, not forgetting how formidable their mids are allready, then gws are eventually going to be a super super power with a factory of refills available to them, we need to have a equalizer, why cant they devide queensland , nsw into 18 areas so all clubs are equal, then we can have our own academys and get more rubgy kids into afl .

 

[Gazmatron]

What *smile* the academy situation was with some giving up two picks in mid 30, s and getting back pick in the early teen and pick40, the draft collusion was obviously carlton and sos, should be investigated has only reason they completed their 4 player deal.

Who knows next year those academies may well produce nothing warranting a round 1 pick. The Swans got Heeney last year but when was the last academy pick for them. Similarly can't ever recall Brisbane have one prior to this year. Don't forget Geelong got Ablett for pick 40, Hawkins for pick 41 and Scarlett for pick 45 where were the complaints then. Over time these things sort them selves out and it may well show that this draft was a fluke year.

 

[leon]

So say we have say Naish and Broderick and they're both ranked top 10.

Our first pick is 12. We trade this for 19 and 20. Our next pick 30, we send that out for pick 41,42,43.

I'm not sure how many points that would amount to, but something along those lines is how we'd get two top 10 talents for zilch?

I'll go with you on that but, like so many people now, struggling to follow it, or more likely just find it tedious. Footy turned into accounting! Boring.
But just gives AFL a perfect smokescreen to hide inequity.

 

[tigerlove]

Who knows next year those academies may well produce nothing warranting a round 1 pick. The Swans got Heeney last year but when was the last academy pick for them. Similarly can't ever recall Brisbane have one prior to this year. Don't forget Geelong got Ablett for pick 40, Hawkins for pick 41 and Scarlett for pick 45 where were the complaints then. Over time these things sort them selves out and it may well show that this draft was a fluke year.

Nah, programs get more and more professional and more productive over time. It's only going to get worse imo. There's a clear advantage to some of these mature interstate teams. There is no way in the world the weaker Victorian teams over a period of time can compete with this. If you get an extra quality player once a year, after 4 years that's a fifth of your team in extra quality players. This academy points system is a farce. All the teams do is pile up on lower picks they were never going to use anyway. It would be bearable if they paid true price for these players but they're getting them cheaply in most cases.

 

[leon]

Who knows next year those academies may well produce nothing warranting a round 1 pick. The Swans got Heeney last year but when was the last academy pick for them. Similarly can't ever recall Brisbane have one prior to this year. Don't forget Geelong got Ablett for pick 40, Hawkins for pick 41 and Scarlett for pick 45 where were the complaints then. Over time these things sort them selves out and it may well show that this draft was a fluke year.

OK, so can you just give me some advance notice of when Richmond's turn to take advantage of some perks comes about please?
I'm harping on the same point: whether it was the old F/S system, the amazing array of excessive high draft picks given to the expansion teams, or now the Academy system, the AFL is inept on equitable systems. The Draft was relatively fair in principle as I previously described it (not though the old F/S), but they've wrecked it now.
It's naive to say that it doesn't matter now because e.g. Lions are rockbottom. But that top player that they just got, could make such a difference to us that we go premiers in 2016. It's all hypothetical ... but not equitable.

 

[Mappa]

Its interesting isn't it.
Academies equals father sun selections for vic clubs.
While father sons still apply for new sides
I would have thought they should limit the number of academy players in any one year available to any side.
That makes the academy system fair for all, say max two players per year
That way the league and all other clubs benefit from the millions the league is pouring into this new ventures.

 

[Long Lost Hernaman]

This whole thing is completely botched. Club based academies completely distort the concept of national competition and make it all the harder for the heartland clubs.

If a lad from the traditional footy states is able to be drafted by any of the 18 clubs in the pure sense of the draft, why should the rules be different for a lad from the other states?

Insofar as the non-traditional footy states do not have their own elite pathways then the AFL should run those state based elite pathways themselves. It pays for them anyway via the millions of dollars it spends propping up Brisbane, Gold Coast, GWS and Sydney. Yes, Sydney, after all that success, it still is not financially viable. Then all clubs could have perfect information and the same access to all academy players.

 

[Gazmatron]

LOOK at sydney premiers in 2012, grand finalist in 2013, then get heeney, mills, both top 2 mids in their draft years, how the hell do a richmond catch them when they consistently get better players garanteed to them, you could start to build an elite mid based on heeney, mills, not forgetting how formidable their mids are allready, then gws are eventually going to be a super super power with a factory of refills available to them, we need to have a equalizer, why cant they devide queensland , nsw into 18 areas so all clubs are equal, then we can have our own academys and get more rubgy kids into afl .

Clearly you have no idea of where AFL is played in NSW. It is limited to the Riverina, Canberra and Sydney metro. These is a comp around Broken Hill but players there have always gone to Adelaide not Sydney. Minor competitions on the South Coast and around Newcastle. There have been no players from the Newcastle or South Coast areas made AFL list out of that comp. The Sydney metro players apart from the McVeighs and the Jack brothers include such notables as Ed Barlow, Playfair and Craig Bird (years ago everyones bogey McClure) not much of a harvest over that last 10 years from academies. From memory Troy Luff and our own Ray Hall started in the Newcastle area before moving to Sydney they were the only ones to make an AFL list. All 4 Northern clubs throw a considerable amount of money at these academies. The Southern and Interstate clubs contribute nothing to them so like the Father/son rule why shouldn't they get a bonus when it arrives. As some comments have been made if in 1 year we fluked the next Richo and Lids under the father/son we would be off loading our first round pick really quick. Under the arrangement of dividing the State into 18 areas we would probably draw Dubbo and take us 5 years to explain to the locals what the 4 goal posts stood for. The same applies in Queensland where it is strictly limited to the Brisbane / Gold Coast corner with a minor comp around Townsville. Anyway why limit it to NSW and Qld why not the rest of the Country. Imagine the whinges in Victoria if the Crows were given Ovens and Murray and Freo the Bendigo leagues.

 

[tigersnake]

I'm not against the academies per se, but agree with others that the points system is Bulldust. Some of those 'give up' and 'get' comparisons last night were pathetic, no brainers. Jason Dunstall actuall audibly scoffed at one, then said 'um pretty easy choice'. They have to give up something decent, that's not too much to ask.

This bundling up of low picks for one good pick reminds me of PRE in the mid to late 00s, some posters would say 'can't we offer Hyde, Tivendale, Fleming, Morrison and Manfield for pick 10?'

It was ridiculous wishful thinking, but the AFL has engineered a system to make it happen for the academy clubs.

 

[poppa x]

I think we are almost at the point of re-introducing a form of zoning.
For the first two rounds of picks only ..................
Freo and WC can have all WA players
Adelaide and Port all SA players
The 9 Victorian Clubs share Vic players
Brisbane and GCS share Qld players and Academy picks
Like wise Sydney and GWS NSW players and Academy picks

For Round 3 selection and beyond it's open slather.

 

[jokershoppe]

Clearly you have no idea of where AFL is played in NSW. It is limited to the Riverina, Canberra and Sydney metro. These is a comp around Broken Hill but players there have always gone to Adelaide not Sydney. Minor competitions on the South Coast and around Newcastle. There have been no players from the Newcastle or South Coast areas made AFL list out of that comp. The Sydney metro players apart from the McVeighs and the Jack brothers include such notables as Ed Barlow, Playfair and Craig Bird (years ago everyones bogey McClure) not much of a harvest over that last 10 years from academies. From memory Troy Luff and our own Ray Hall started in the Newcastle area before moving to Sydney they were the only ones to make an AFL list. All 4 Northern clubs throw a considerable amount of money at these academies. The Southern and Interstate clubs contribute nothing to them so like the Father/son rule why shouldn't they get a bonus when it arrives. As some comments have been made if in 1 year we fluked the next Richo and Lids under the father/son we would be off loading our first round pick really quick. Under the arrangement of dividing the State into 18 areas we would probably draw Dubbo and take us 5 years to explain to the locals what the 4 goal posts stood for. The same applies in Queensland where it is strictly limited to the Brisbane / Gold Coast corner with a minor comp around Townsville. Anyway why limit it to NSW and Qld why not the rest of the Country. Imagine the whinges in Victoria if the Crows were given Ovens and Murray and Freo the Bendigo leagues.

NAH MATE ,when you divide into 18 it can take various forms, could be one club per afl team, it would have to be a equally fair system, remember this was what the whole of victoria use to be like, with that experience i,m sure a equally fair system of divide could be done, you simply cant continue to make up rules that heavily favour some clubs only, has it will distort the competition with sides like richmond not making a prelim since 2001.

 

[mrposhman]

All 4 Northern clubs throw a considerable amount of money at these academies. The Southern and Interstate clubs contribute nothing to them so like the Father/son rule why shouldn't they get a bonus when it arrives.

How can you claim that Southern clubs do not contribute anything to these academies? Whether directly or indirectly, southern clubs are funding these academies despite only providing a benefit to 4 clubs. Equalisation sees to that. Whether they try to confuse people by packaging them up seperately and claiming that the Northern clubs fund them, we still have to fund the Northern clubs for the shortfall in their remaining football spend.

 

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

Insofar as the non-traditional footy states do not have their own elite pathways then the AFL should run those state based elite pathways themselves. It pays for them anyway via the millions of dollars it spends propping up Brisbane, Gold Coast, GWS and Sydney. Yes, Sydney, after all that success, it still is not financially viable. Then all clubs could have perfect information and the same access to all academy players.

Bingo!

And how did a Ballarat boy end up part of the GWS academy?

 

[tigersnake]

Bingo!

And how did a Ballarat boy end up part of the GWS academy?

I asked the same question, He's actually from the Riverina but was a boarding School at St Pats.

 

[Gazmatron]

NAH MATE ,when you divide into 18 it can take various forms, could be one club per afl team, it would have to be a equally fair system, remember this was what the whole of victoria use to be like, with that experience i,m sure a equally fair system of divide could be done, you simply cant continue to make up rules that heavily favour some clubs only, has it will distort the competition with sides like richmond not making a prelim since 2001.

Agree but sadly all zones aren't equal we had a very ordinary one from memory only getting Lee, Flea and Knighta whereas the Bendigo Balarat and Gippsland leagues were goldmines. We got *smile* Clay and the Ghost from memory under pretty dodgy circumstances. The only solution is probably to abolish the lot including father/ son and cop the whinge when (don't know whether they have a son) say Robert Harvey and Buckley's kid wind up at Port Adelaide (almost worth it to hear Eddie whinge). The problem is these division of leagues or clubs require would require the AFL clubs to put skin in the game (cash) to each club. Lets say we got allocated South Bunbury a traditional strong team in that league but didn't put cash into the club. Freo got Brunswick and paid above match payments. The good kids would quickly drift to Brunswick. Similarly in Perth there are only 9 clubs in the WAFL how do you allocate those teams. Lets assume we went to a situation where the TAC teams were allocated to the Vic clubs. Say we had the Murray Bushrangers and knew that the next Richo a Tiger supporter was playing for the Northern Knights, human nature being what it is would see us using every trick in the book to get him into the Murray side. That situation would favour the financially strong clubs like ours. The situation would a lot more unequal if say SA and WA clubs were divided up between the 2 clubs for reasons given above. This problem has been around for years. Going back to WA around 1960 where similar zoning applied. East Perth spotted a super talent in Don Langdon (no relation to Karl) in one of the wheat farming areas zoned to another club. East Perth paid his boarding school fees at Hale School when I was boarding at the time and hence residentially bound to East Perth. Look at another angle with WA in this draft apart from Ah Chee, the next taken was Schoenfeldt at 34 foliowed by 4 in the 60s mostly mature age including our pick at 67. If you did a check you may well find that more Qlders and Tasmanians were drafted this year. I guess what I have been trying to say is that this might be just a fluke year. Whatever approach is adopted you will get winners and losers (good years and bad years) unless there are no exemptions.