Do we make excuses or are we on a rigid path to success?

[tigertim]

It's funny Rosy, was thinking the same thing yesterday. When other sides go from bottom spots to top spots (or GF) in 1,2, 3 or 4 seasons whilst we still haven't chalked up 1 finals win I often read how it's different for them.

"They weren't affected by the compromised drafts"

"They had players who played in a GF "

"They were never as bad as we were"

 

[The_General]

Little from column a, little from column b

 

[Tigerfan]

We have a pretty good list with young sorts.
They will learn and get better.

My concern is the example set to them by the Reno squad.

Also, we lose early games as we get into gear.

2014 our win loss was shocking, until we started our winning streak
2015. We had a shocker in the first six weeks
2016. Hopefully we ready to go from round 1.
That will help a lot

 

[TOT70]

The Eagles are an example of two things at the moment, the first being that their previous coach was holding them back by being stuck in an inflexible mindset when the football world had moved on and made his way of doing things obsolete. Their current game plan is simple and flexible but is based on decent key marking targets up forward and doesn't over rely on pin-point precision.

The second is that both the Perth sides have an ongoing advantage year after year and they really have to stuff up to win less than 13 or 14 matches each and every season, and this season WCE have not stuffed up. Throw in the lure of local W.A. draftees wanting to return there and that does not do them any harm at all in remaining strong on the field.

We are in a massively different environment with much more local competition to firstly attract and keep players capable of making us successful along with all the other things that are essential, and because of that we have to get things right at a level that is much better than our rivals. We might get things right 95% of the time and in our own little bubble be satisfied with that, but if your competitors get it right 97% of the time then they just increase the gap, that is the story of organisations that don't achieve the top levels of success in highly competitive environments.

We have done ok to get where we are now with the playing list we have and the game plan we use, but right now we are just another middling side that could finish any season from 5th to 12th depending on the fixture and injuries, and it would be an exception to go further unless we can play consistently better football when it really counts.

Fantastic post, David. It is hard to argue with any of this.

I think you really hit the nail on the head with the comment about a simple gameplan with decent targets.

Goal kickers are the most important players in any team. It is the only statistic that counts. Both Grand Finalists are blessed with a stack of goal kickers who can be relied upon to finish off the work done upfield.

We still need another couple of first class forwards and another resting ruck who can impact the scoreboard regularly.

Riewoldt, Deledio and Martin are the only reliable goal kickers in our team.

 

[TT33]

Vickery is a pretty reliable goal kicker

 

[Baloo]

Riewoldt, Deledio and Martin are the only reliable goal kickers in our team.

Plasma hard done by

 

[KnightersRevenge]

On West Coast I wouldn't discount the class that gone through that midfield over a decade. You learn at the heals of the best and that constant line of talent and committment becomes part of the woodwork, institutional memory if you will. Cousins, Judd, Kerr paved the way for Priddis, Shuey, Gaff. We need to get our mids up and going again. They were backing each other up and working hard for each other earlier in the year but it fell away as the season wore on. IIRC it was the Hawks game where it was really obvious. So they can do it. But can they do it in September?

Someone smarter than me said last year after our finals loss - "improvement is not a ratchet" ...or something like that. Dimma has ratcheted his way to here. Can he teach them (like his two-speed play tried to do I think so he may be on the right track) to attack?

 

[TOT70]

Vickery is a pretty reliable goal kicker

Did well over the last ten games. Hasn't kicked enough goals in his career for a player who has essentially always played deep forward.

He has 132 goals in 102 games. Kurt Tippett is a very similar player in terms of time spent up forward and time spent in the ruck. He has 301 goals over 152 games. At Adelaide he played 104 games and kicked 188 goals. Many consider Tippett to be a spud. Vickery is not even close to his level.

He may well get there but he is not a reliable goal kicker just yet.

 

[Baloo]

Did well over the last ten games. Hasn't kicked enough goals in his career for a player who has essentially always played deep forward.

He has 132 goals in 102 games. Kurt Tippett is a very similar player in terms of time spent up forward and time spent in the ruck. He has 301 goals over 152 games. At Adelaide he played 104 games and kicked 188 goals. Many consider Tippett to be a spud. Vickery is not even close to his level.

He may well get there but he is not a reliable goal kicker just yet.

Ah, you mean can be relied on to kick goals, as opposed to a reliable kick for goal

 

[TOT70]

Ah, you mean can be relied on to kick goals, as opposed to a reliable kick for goal

I guess so.

Gee this is a tough crowd. Would it help if I misspelt a few more words? Rellible? Propelly? Goollkicka?

 

[Baloo]

I guess so.

Gee this is a tough crowd. Would it help if I misspelt a few more words? Rellible? Propelly? Goollkicka?

yeah, it propely would

 

[Team Agg]

There is nothing ruthless to this club at the moment. I would trade off Edwards, Ellis and Griffo
The best valve for Edwards is now
Teams llovd players like Ellis, run around all day get a 1000 touches and have no impact
Griffo 200cm 100kg Cat

 

[Team Agg]

There is nothing ruthless to this club at the moment. I would trade off Edwards, Ellis and Griffo
The best valve for Edwards is now
Teams llovd players like Ellis, run around all day get a 1000 touches and have no impact
Griffo 200cm 100kg Cat

hawks did this in the early Mid 2000.....traded out blokes like Hay, Thompson, Rawlings and even Croad. All perceived to be good talent but were in essence list blockers. We must be aggressive and be prepared to give something to get something.....none of this day dreaming crap where we want to trade our spuds for a big fish.....

 

[axlefoley]

There is nothing ruthless to this club at the moment. I would trade off Edwards, Ellis and Griffo

Have to agree with the trading part of it. Richmond have no guts to do such a thing. We retire our veterans until they are dragging their feet, with no trade value.

I would have Vickery as a trade potential too.

 

[pokey]

hawks did this in the early Mid 2000.....traded out blokes like Hay, Thompson, Rawlings and even Croad. All perceived to be good talent but were in essence list blockers. We must be aggressive and be prepared to give something to get something.....none of this day dreaming crap where we want to trade our spuds for a big fish.....

If my memory serves me correctly, the hawks traded out Hay and Thompson and were aware of their mental health issues at the time, very shady.

They traded out Croad due to off-field issues, then got him back when the other party had left the club and gone to the same state. He ended up winning a flag with them.

And the doggies threw the kitchen sink at Rawlings in another ill-advised bid for a key forward.

Then we let them draft Roughy and Buddy. The rest is history.

 

[Team Agg]

If my memory serves me correctly, the hawks traded out Hay and Thompson and were aware of their mental health issues at the time, very shady.

They traded out Croad due to off-field issues, then got him back when the other party had left the club and gone to the same state. He ended up winning a flag with them.

And the doggies threw the kitchen sink at Rawlings in another ill-advised bid for a key forward.

Then we let them draft Roughy and Buddy. The rest is history.

It doesn't matter what the issue with them was, my point being was they all had currency and the club had to be bold to trade them to get something of value......I'm sure Griffiths, Ellis, conca, Batchelor and Even Edwards all have a fair bit of of currency if the club is willing to be aggressive and bold

 

[pokey]

It doesn't matter what the issue with them was, my point being was they all had currency and the club had to be bold to trade them to get something of value......I'm sure Griffiths, Ellis, conca, Batchelor and Even Edwards all have a fair bit of of currency if the club is willing to be aggressive and bold

They were key position players who gained them first round picks (except for Rawlings who went in the PSD).

If you think that any club is giving us first round picks for Griffiths, Conca, Batch or Edwards, well, they're not.

Maybe for Ellis, but why would you when he's about to reach his peak?

 

[Team Agg]

They were key position players who gained them first round picks (except for Rawlings who went in the PSD).

If you think that any club is giving us first round picks for Griffiths, Conca, Batch or Edwards, well, they're not.

Maybe for Ellis, but why would you when he's about to reach his peak?

iDont think I mentioned anywhere about receiving 1st rounders.....I'd take a first rounder for Ellis in the blink of an eye..... tries hard but will never be a match winner. griff would have currency, possibly not first rounder but easy high second or thrown in as a sweetener for a 1st rounder considering he is KPF ......Edwards the same (though not KPF). I think we need more talent and by being bold and aggressive it will show we are not prepared to accept mediocrity.

 

[pokey]

Fair enough, but what you would take and what we would actually get are often very different things.

 

[Team Agg]

Fair enough, but what you would take and what we would actually get are often very different things.

and therein lies the enormity of the task every club faces. I can't see us getting much further with the current crop of players. Need a couple of more line breakers. Just have to be bold to get them