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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Dipper has been railroaded...
- Thread starter Philster
- Start date
hopper said:
Ok, I take your point hopper.
I won't be getting any further involved in this discussion.
LeeToRainesToRoach said:Watch who you're calling 'indigenous', TF. It's a minefield out there.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/dont-call-me-indigenous-lowitja/2008/05/01/1209235051400.html
Aborigine or aboriginal refers to indigenous peoples. The name derives from the Aborigines in Roman mythology. Indigenous Australians are not the only people called Aboriginals.
Is it just me, or is the issue not only that Dipierdominico referred to players as 'abos' but rather he demeaned their achievements in the game by suggesting they did not stand comparision with the achievements of all great players. Like saying Larry Bird's achievements in NBL were not bad for a white guy?
The use of the term 'abo' is a side issue.
Fighting Fury said:
Have wondered that too FF, no offence intended. ;D
But on reflection I think he was trying to praise Wanga on how much he had acheived despite some of the the usual challenges faced by aboriginals of his era.
The other thing that I'm still wrestling with is why it is seemingly Ok, or not offensive, or not as offensive, or barely offensive
for some aboriginals to refer to each other as "abos" in a jovial or matter-of-fatual sense. Isn't that what clouds to acceptability or otherwise of all the arguements?For me, and I expect most people, I've learned through life what is acceptable and not, by experience and observation. Sometimes through mistakes, sometimes through quiet reflection and occasionally through what I read. By far the most useful is through reflection - I'm even doing it now to some extent, and I wish most other people would too. But sadly, reflection appears to be a lost activity.
Baloo said:
But was that the intention of his quip. I suspect it was to highlight how hard the road Gavin travelled, elevating the acheivement, perhaps even over his own. It was however, no matter how many lucid arguments for the pro and con, an ill-considered quip, and Dipper has acknowledged same.
For mine too, the comment to his complainant of "you'll get over it" was just as insensitive.
Ah, the world is angry!
Phar Ace said:Have wondered that too FF, no offence intended. ;D
But on reflection I think he was trying to praise Wanga on how much he had acheived despite some of the the usual challenges faced by aboriginals of his era.
The other thing that I'm still wrestling with is why it is seemingly Ok, or not offensive, or not as offensive, or barely offensive
Totally agree Phar Ace. It's just a sign of being pedantic and hypocritical. I've heard and seen African Americans refer to themselves as 'niggers' nowadays, and as I mentioned before, being called a 'wog' isn't as offensive nowadays as it was decades ago. It all depends on how it's expressed and I'm quite sure there are people, like Dipper, who most of us know is a jovial and friendly person, and would only express it as a true friend would. From what we read, Dipper didn't intend to be racist, however, Mal Brown and Andrew Johns did all due to the way they expressed it.
Thanks Oldie. And this is probably not the place for this debate either. It's emotive stuff indeed. I've done a little of Pharaccio's reflection too - mainly upon whether two wrongs make a right. My apologies for the namecalling stuff.Tigers of Old said:
My final point is that Dipper made a mistake. Dipper knows he made a mistake, and his suggestions of working with Michael Long and co to make ammends shows a man wanting to take responsibility and make it right. He's taking his medicine like a man. Good on him I say.
Uncle said:
No it doesn't but if they said You Aussie ***** then it would be.
It's the context it's used in.
That's why I think Andrew Johns' comment was racist but Brown and Dipper's were just bad humour.
hopper said:
Dipper recently went fishing with Long. He's a friend, as is Wanganeen.
If Dipper was 100% true to principle, he'd resign over his treatment by Demetriou. But he's 52 and makes his living from the industry, so probably can't afford to be excommunicated by the AFL.
What annoys me is that in most cases comments like Dippers are usually grabbed hold of by grand-standing tools like Demetriou and especially media commentators, who use the opportunity to get themselves in the papers, on the news etc. They bleat on about how offensive racist comments are, the damage they cause blah blah. I'm only interested in hearing from either the person to whom the comment was actually made, or someone directly effected ie an indigenous spokesperson. As for the other self-righteous turds who stick their 2 bobs worth in to make themselves look purer than snow , they should just rack off........
Phar Ace said:Have wondered that too FF, no offence intended. ;D
But on reflection I think he was trying to praise Wanga on how much he had acheived despite some of the the usual challenges faced by aboriginals of his era.
The other thing that I'm still wrestling with is why it is seemingly Ok, or not offensive, or not as offensive, or barely offensive
Not really, it happens to a lot of racial terms wogs, nigger etc. they're trying to claim ownership of the term and reduce its power. It doesn't mean they don't find it offensive when someone not from that race uses it.
Phar Ace said:
Its quite clear that abo is regarded as an racially offensive term, and has been for the last 20 years at least. The fact that its a contraction is irrelevant, it was used as a term of derision to describe Aboriginals. Even people like Dermott Brereton are saying that Dipper was out of line and deserved his punishment.
tassiedave said:
Agree to some extent. There's a shrill, self-righteous and lynch-mob feel to the attacks on both Dipper and Brown. People who have never met the blokes emerging from the woodwork and accusing them of being racist, with whatever they say in mitigation (in Browns case) only being used to damn them further. Personally I was impressed with Brown's reaction to the furore.
I also get a bit annoyed at the intolerance shown by many peope as they nail other people down for intolerance. Brown's crack reflected his generation and social milieu. It wasn't acceptable in contemporary public-speech, but so what? It doesn't mean he goes out dressed in bedsheets burning crosses.
As to Demetiou - usually I'm the last to defend him, but I thjink he really had to comment in the circumstances.
Let me tell you a true story.
Many years ago (early 1970's) my firm got computerised for the first time.
We had to convert over 10,000 customers from a hand customer ledger to a computer one.
Part of this process was to get customer invoices computer printed.
Now in those days, hard disk space and RAM was VERY expensive. How does $5,000 in 1970's money for a 1 Megabyte disk grab you?
So we had to be "efficient" with our useage of the disk space.
This meant we had to decide how many characters we wanted to have in a customers name.
After a thorough browsing of customers we decide 21 characters was a good compromise.
So we sent out an Invoice to The Department of Aboriginal Affairs which read:
The Department of Abo
And we got a filthy phone call calling us racist.
No amount of explanations got us off the hook.
We solved it of course by deleting the Word "The" at the start of the name.
Many years ago (early 1970's) my firm got computerised for the first time.
We had to convert over 10,000 customers from a hand customer ledger to a computer one.
Part of this process was to get customer invoices computer printed.
Now in those days, hard disk space and RAM was VERY expensive. How does $5,000 in 1970's money for a 1 Megabyte disk grab you?
So we had to be "efficient" with our useage of the disk space.
This meant we had to decide how many characters we wanted to have in a customers name.
After a thorough browsing of customers we decide 21 characters was a good compromise.
So we sent out an Invoice to The Department of Aboriginal Affairs which read:
The Department of Abo
And we got a filthy phone call calling us racist.
No amount of explanations got us off the hook.
We solved it of course by deleting the Word "The" at the start of the name.
The word Abo is offensive.
Aboriginal's calling themselves Abo's among themselves is natural. It turns the tables on a derogatory word and tries to defuse the hurt. Same with Wog, Nigger ect ect.
With Mal's comments though, calling Aboriginals canniballs, I dont see as racist, as they werent, I maybe wrong.
Aboriginal's calling themselves Abo's among themselves is natural. It turns the tables on a derogatory word and tries to defuse the hurt. Same with Wog, Nigger ect ect.
With Mal's comments though, calling Aboriginals canniballs, I dont see as racist, as they werent, I maybe wrong.
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