David Hicks [Split from Saddam thread]

[RemoteTiger]

Re: Saddam sentenced to the old noose and drop

Hicks is a trained terrorist, and he deserves all he gets!.

We will never know now - because of the justice system you support he never had a chance to rebuke all the claims - he was left to rot for 5 years and after that you and I would agree to anything- just to get out.

That is my point - the 5 years he was left by the US and Australian Governments to rot while they played politics.

I gather you are only for Human Rights when it is about you and your family - as for the rest of us - we can go jump - guilty or not.

Forget Hicks' accussers - look at the Human Rights issue here................................

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Saddam sentenced to the old noose and drop

Hicks is a trained terrorist, and he deserves all he gets!.

We will never know now - because of the justice system you support he never had a chance to rebuke all the claims - he was left to rot for 5 years and after that you and I would agree to anything- just to get out.

That is my point - the 5 years he was left by the US and Australian Governments to rot while they played politics.

I gather you are only for Human Rights when it is about you and your family - as for the rest of us - we can go jump - guilty or not.

Forget Hicks' accussers - look at the Human Rights issue here................................

C'mon Remote....please don't you get sucked into all this "human rights" hocus pocus as well.
Thought you were smarter than that!

Firstly, he has plead guilty....he has taken the plea, and he is guilty.
End of story.

And the human rights....well, where were the human rights groups when those planes flew into the Twin-Towers, killing thousands, including Aussies?
Where were the human rights groups, when people, including Aussies, were blown to smithereens in Bali?
Where were the human rights groups, when hundreds were killed in Madrid, when the train exploded?
Where were the human rights groups, when people, including Aussies were either maimed or killed, in the London train bombings?
Where were the human rights groups, when people were beheaded in Iraq?

All these atrocities were committed by the same people Hicks was training and assisting......yet, now that Hicks has been held for 5 years, and has had his day in court.....(something the thousands of victims that have suffered at the hands of the same people Hicks was associated with were denied, as their lives were taken from them).....it is people like you who cry out "where is the human rights?"

It's about time people opened their eyes and looked at the big picture here.
Hicks was in Afghanistan, as a mercenary, and assisting the Taliban and terrorist organisations.

If he wasn't caught, and came to Australia, and committed an act of terrorism here in Australia, injuring or killing your family members, I wonder if people would then still be crying out about the unfair treatment of poor David Hicks, and his human rights?

 

[Curtiger]

Re: Saddam sentenced to the old noose and drop

Hicks is a trained terrorist, and he deserves all he gets!.

We will never know now - because of the justice system you support he never had a chance to rebuke all the claims - he was left to rot for 5 years and after that you and I would agree to anything- just to get out.

That is my point - the 5 years he was left by the US and Australian Governments to rot while they played politics.

I gather you are only for Human Rights when it is about you and your family - as for the rest of us - we can go jump - guilty or not.

Forget Hicks' accussers - look at the Human Rights issue here................................

C'mon Remote....please don't you get sucked into all this "human rights" hocus pocus as well.
Thought you were smarter than that!

Ah Remote...So young. So naiive. Human rights is all smoke and mirrors, you know. Like Santy Claus, the Easter Bunny and climate change.

 

[an_oxford_man]

Liverpool, I always knew that you were a subscriber to extreme right wing ideals.

I never knew that you condoned torture... but your views on the David Hicks issue have proved that.

[Deleted]

 

[mld]

I am unsure why someone would choose to live in a western democracy if he hates the concept of human rights. There are plenty of countries where human rights aren't respected to choose from.

 

[Liverpool]

Liverpool, I always knew that you were a subscriber to extreme right wing ideals. (Like this poor xenophobic bastard, Martin Lehmann http://www.australian-news.com.au/crime_2026.htm)

I never knew that you condoned torture... but your views on the David Hicks issue have proved that.

[Deleted]

Firstly, what torture did Hicks receive?

Broken bones? Sleep deprivation? Beaten to a pulp?

What exactly....as, I haven't read anything of any atrocities he has had to endure yet?

Secondly, let us assume that he did suffer such torture.
He has gotten off lightly compared to:

* the civilians burnt to a crisp in the airliners
* the innocent people who decided to jump from the Twin Towers, preferring to die that way rather than be burnt alive, or crushed when the towers collapsed
* people like Nick Berg, who were beheaded live on camera, his head removed with a blunt knife
* the children and civilians blown into unrecognisable pieces in Madrid, and the same results in London
* or the dozens of Aussies blown-up and burnt alive, people losing their husbands/wives/children...and the 'lucky' ones who have had limbs removed, or are still receiving treatment and operations for their burnt bodies.

All these people suffered "real torture" because of people like Hicks...which people like you are defending.

Last time I looked, Hicks doesn't have burns to 90% of his body, still has his head on his shoulders, still has 2 arms and 2 legs, hasn't lost any family members to a suicide-bomber, and he is still alive.

And you want to have a crack at me about Hicks' "torture"?

What about the "real" torture all the above civilians have endured, by simply going about their daily affairs, their lives changed forever, due to people like Hicks?

[Deleted]

 

[Rosy]

Enough of the name calling and personal insults fellas.

 

[jayfox]

I haven't read the whole thread on Hicks but here is my take on it -
5 years without trial is too long for anyone regardless of the crime. That said he would not be in this situation if he had not trained and fought with a terrorist organisation, so he only has himself to blame for being in this situation. An ideal scenario, in my opinion, would have been for him to have been captured, had a reasonably quick trial (say within 1 year of capture), been found guilty (as it appears he clearly is), and sentenced to a reasonable term (my thoughts would be 20 or so years) with the view that he gets as much education on his error and rehabilitation as possible, whilst in jail.

 

[evo]

Hicks was unlucky.

Thats what happens when you get caught up in a war on an abstract noun.Countries start throwing away doctrines stretching back to the Magna Carta.

'Home of the free' .LOL.

 

[Tygrys]

The real losers in this melodrama are the people of Australia. Not only is this piece of human garbage David Hicks going to be soon returned to this country so he can serve out the rest of his sentence at the tax payers expense but eventually he'll be let loose on the streets again. Personally I don't see why he should be ever released, in a war situation you don't release enemy combatants until the war is won. And this war on terrorism is far from over.

Perhaps the best compromise would be upon release that he decides to leave Australia permanently and settle in a country whose value and legal system is more in snyc with that of his beloved Taliban. At any rate to the majority of Australians (as opposed to the pathetic bleeding hearts who think that he is some kind of hero or martyr) he is not welcome back here and never will be. Hicks is scum and has got (and hopefully will continue to get) everthing he deserves.

 

[Curtiger]

Liverpool, I always knew that you were a subscriber to extreme right wing ideals. (Like this poor xenophobic bastard, Martin Lehmann http://www.australian-news.com.au/crime_2026.htm)

I never knew that you condoned torture... but your views on the David Hicks issue have proved that.

[Deleted]

Secondly, let us assume that he did suffer such torture.
He has gotten off lightly compared to:

* the civilians burnt to a crisp in the airliners
* the innocent people who decided to jump from the Twin Towers, preferring to die that way rather than be burnt alive, or crushed when the towers collapsed
* people like Nick Berg, who were beheaded live on camera, his head removed with a blunt knife
* the children and civilians blown into unrecognisable pieces in Madrid, and the same results in London
* or the dozens of Aussies blown-up and burnt alive, people losing their husbands/wives/children...and the 'lucky' ones who have had limbs removed, or are still receiving treatment and operations for their burnt bodies.

All these people suffered "real torture" because of people like Hicks...which people like you are defending.

So he has allegedly been engaging in terrorist activities and has allegdly been tortured...You say these two cancel each other out anyway...But doesn't the point of his imprisonment (supposing it is to defend democracy and justice from bloody destruction) collapse when we use terrorist techniques to punish him - even before he is guilty...or charged?

The real losers in this melodrama are the people of Australia. Not only is this piece of human garbage David Hicks going to be soon returned to this country so he can serve out the rest of his sentence at the tax payers expense but eventually he'll be let loose on the streets again. Personally I don't see why he should be ever released, in a war situation you don't release enemy combatants until the war is won. And this war on terrorism is far from over.

Bush says the war on terror will never be over...Does Hicks get a sentence of 'forever' in jail?

 

[an_oxford_man]

So he has allegedly been engaging in terrorist activities and has allegdly been tortured...You say these two cancel each other out anyway...But doesn't the point of his imprisonment (supposing it is to defend democracy and justice from bloody destruction) collapse when we use terrorist techniques to punish him - even before he is guilty...or charged?

The real losers in this melodrama are the people of Australia. Not only is this piece of human garbage David Hicks going to be soon returned to this country so he can serve out the rest of his sentence at the tax payers expense but eventually he'll be let loose on the streets again. Personally I don't see why he should be ever released, in a war situation you don't release enemy combatants until the war is won. And this war on terrorism is far from over.

Bush says the war on terror will never be over...Does Hicks get a sentence of 'forever' in jail?

Maybe it is time to bring back the "SWISH", C.E.B?

 

[FightingFury]

The disturbing part of the capture was 5 years without a trial.
Disgraceful and inhumane.

Having said that, no crocodile tears for a 'soldier of fortune' who was happy to shoot at Australian soldiers for a extremist group like the Taliban for a pocketful of gold coins.

I don't subscribe to the theory he was over there for a package holiday FFS, can anyone honestly deny what his motives were?

 

[Hey Pesto!]

The disturbing part of the capture was 5 years without a trial.
Disgraceful and inhumane.

Having said that, no crocodile tears for a 'soldier of fortune' who was happy to shoot at Australian soldiers for a extremist group like the Taliban for a pocketful of gold coins.

I don't subscribe to the theory he was over there for a package holiday FFS, can anyone honestly deny what his motives were?

So, your legal process would be:

1. Capture/apprehension
2. Jail term, punishment
3. charges
4. trial
5. more punishment

 

[jb03]

The disturbing part of the capture was 5 years without a trial.
Disgraceful and inhumane.

Having said that, no crocodile tears for a 'soldier of fortune' who was happy to shoot at Australian soldiers for a extremist group like the Taliban for a pocketful of gold coins.

I don't subscribe to the theory he was over there for a package holiday FFS, can anyone honestly deny what his motives were?

So, your legal process would be:

1. Capture/apprehension
2. Jail term, punishment
3. charges
4. trial
5. more punishment

Didn't you read his post. He stated 5 years without a trial was disturbing. Far be from to answer on bubbles behalf but I would have thought the legal process should be straightforward:

1. Capture
2. Charges
3. Trial
4. Punishment
5. Rehabilitation

 

[Liverpool]

Liverpool, I always knew that you were a subscriber to extreme right wing ideals. (Like this poor xenophobic bastard, Martin Lehmann http://www.australian-news.com.au/crime_2026.htm)

I never knew that you condoned torture... but your views on the David Hicks issue have proved that.

[Deleted]

Secondly, let us assume that he did suffer such torture.
He has gotten off lightly compared to:

* the civilians burnt to a crisp in the airliners
* the innocent people who decided to jump from the Twin Towers, preferring to die that way rather than be burnt alive, or crushed when the towers collapsed
* people like Nick Berg, who were beheaded live on camera, his head removed with a blunt knife
* the children and civilians blown into unrecognisable pieces in Madrid, and the same results in London
* or the dozens of Aussies blown-up and burnt alive, people losing their husbands/wives/children...and the 'lucky' ones who have had limbs removed, or are still receiving treatment and operations for their burnt bodies.

All these people suffered "real torture" because of people like Hicks...which people like you are defending.

So he has allegedly been engaging in terrorist activities and has allegdly been tortured...You say these two cancel each other out anyway...But doesn't the point of his imprisonment (supposing it is to defend democracy and justice from bloody destruction) collapse when we use terrorist techniques to punish him - even before he is guilty...or charged?

No, he wasn't "allegedly" engaging in terrorist activities.
He is guilty of that.

And again, I haven't heard anything about his 'torture'....what torture did he "allegedly" receive exactly, Curtis?

To me, the only torture Hicks received was that of no exercise, explaining Hicks' weight gain.. :

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-10-03-guantanamo-weight_x.htm

As for his human rights....again, I haven't heard much from yourself, Gypsy, or RemoteTiger about the human rights that were taken from innocent civilians, by people like Hicks....yet I am reading post after post from all three of you defending Hicks' human rights... ...the mind boggles!

Curtis...if Hicks wasn't captured in Afghanistan, and made it back here to Australia, and committed a terrorist act where yourself or your family members were killed/injured...what would your views on Hick's human rights be then?

And I haven't heard anything from either of you about the human rights of the British sailors, "kidnapped" and held in Iran....it seems the "human rights" bandwagon only rolls in one direction.... :

 

[Anduril]

If posters were to comment on every human rights abuse they know of you wouldn't get a look in Liverish. :hihi
Don't recall any one posting about Mugabe et al either but I'm not going to be childish about it.

 

[an_oxford_man]

As for his human rights....again, I haven't heard much from yourself, Gypsy, or RemoteTiger about the human rights that were taken from innocent civilians, by people like Hicks....yet I am reading post after post from all three of you defending Hicks' human rights... ...the mind boggles!

And I haven't heard much from you, Livers, about the human rights that were taken from innocent civilians by the US.

 

[Hey Pesto!]

The disturbing part of the capture was 5 years without a trial.
Disgraceful and inhumane.

Having said that, no crocodile tears for a 'soldier of fortune' who was happy to shoot at Australian soldiers for a extremist group like the Taliban for a pocketful of gold coins.

I don't subscribe to the theory he was over there for a package holiday FFS, can anyone honestly deny what his motives were?

So, your legal process would be:

1. Capture/apprehension
2. Jail term, punishment
3. charges
4. trial
5. more punishment

Didn't you read his post. He stated 5 years without a trial was disturbing. Far be from to answer on bubbles behalf but I would have thought the legal process should be straightforward:

1. Capture
2. Charges
3. Trial
4. Punishment
5. Rehabilitation

Yep, good point, sorry Hoolywood!

 

[pahoffm]

Me thinks the whole situation seems to be an embarassment for everyone.

Hicks: A disturbed man who left his family, wife & children without support, never wanted anything to do with them, and ended up a nomad in a god-forsaken & eternally violent part of the world.

Mr Hicks Snr: For having to admit to the world who his son was. (Hicks senior seems one of the few noble identities in the whole affair.)

Major Muri (I think that's his name): The only other noble character, stuck to what liberty, freedom & justice really means, when most of his own country forgot.

The Bush Administration: Forgot all the lessons of Vietnam & everything that Democracy is supposed to mean, ie habeas corpus, then has tried to redeem themselves with this "crap" & probably unenforceable agreement.

The Howard government: Friendships & alliances are one thing. Howard's conduct in this matter is another. Less than a year until I don't have to see his face again.