Rosy, this was truly a gem of a post, very inspirational. I share your optimism, however we've still got a bit of pain to suffer yet.
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Changing culture
- Thread starter Rosy
- Start date
sack joel bowden and our culture will suddenly change. i know it appears rediculous that one person can have such an impact, but i thought we played much better without his horrible body language and demeanor on the field. he drags the other players down.
Richo change his attitude, and your spot on Bowden is very inconsistent in this area & deos not realise how much he can influence other players with the long face.
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Modified later oopps... I meant Richo changed his attitude this year missed the d (changed)
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Modified later oopps... I meant Richo changed his attitude this year missed the d (changed)
no, i disagree with the previous point regarding richo. i don't blame him for doing his na-na due to the shocking kicking into the forward line. if richo had played for a team with a reliable midfield, he would have kicked a ton a few times. poor bugger! i feel sorry for him.
Harry said:
This is silly. On that reasoning, St Kilda should cut Robert Harvey et al, Brisbane should have cut Chris Johnson and Alistair Lynch, Collingwood should have cut Buckley, Rocca etc etc.
This notion that people like Wayne Campbell, the Kellaways or Gaspar etc are the nourishment for some fictional loser cancer that is supposedly spreading through the club, is claptrap.
If there is such a thing as a 'cancer' at Richmond, then it is IMO nurtured by instability, finger pointing, name calling and dividedness. Not by people who have busted a gut to become AFL footballers, and then busted another gut to stay there and compete. Yes, they are well-rewarded financially, but please don't underestimate the blood, sweat, tears and sacrifice that is spent in becoming a league footballer. You have to be a winner just to make it.
Dean,
If it ain't the coach and it ain't the senior players then why have we been so crap for so loooong ??
Bowden ?
In a nutshell we have had shocking coaches and as a result our senior players have developed into very average footballers who are relaying bad habits and bad attitudes down to the new guys. A decent coach must be employed and the chain must be broken by cleaning out the senior habitual losers !!
If it ain't the coach and it ain't the senior players then why have we been so crap for so loooong ??
Bowden ?
In a nutshell we have had shocking coaches and as a result our senior players have developed into very average footballers who are relaying bad habits and bad attitudes down to the new guys. A decent coach must be employed and the chain must be broken by cleaning out the senior habitual losers !!
Harry said:
Why have we been so crap for so long? Not "player loser cancer" or whatever you want to call it. That's just a convenient, pretty shallow, easily grasped pop-psychology reason. I hesitate to introduce the concept of logic, but surely if players infect eachother with habitual tendencies, why, in your opinion, don't the successful ones at the club (Johnson, Marsh, Blumfield, Crocker, Weightman...etc) infect the current players with winning tendencies? Why does your cancer only spread one way? And why has it only spread one way for 20 years, depsite all the previously successful players, people and coaches that have had the chance to "infect" the place?
I think you need to look deeper than saying "Wayne Campbell is a loser, ergo all players who play with him will be losers".
AS I said in my previous post (which you chose to ignore), if loser players create loser players, how is that other loser players from very loser clubs have become integral parts of successful teams? Your theory doesn't add up.
A winning culture goes way beyond the players and coach. It inhabits the fabric of everything a club does. So does a losing culture. While we have nothing to show for it yet, I do believe that the fabric is in the process of being re-woven. 20 years of weaving the wrong culture means that we need longer to right it. Patience!
We're not a bad club, we're a great club and we're doing everything *sob* we *sob* can, all right? *Sob* :'( :'(
;D
(Apologies to Peter Schwab) :-\
While we have nothing to show for it yet, I do believe that the fabric is in the process of being re-woven.
Can l ask how Dean?
Id like to think you are right, but lm searching for something l fear doesn't exsist :'(
Can l ask how Dean?
Id like to think you are right, but lm searching for something l fear doesn't exsist :'(
The simple fact is that our senior players that are our leaders in Campbell, Chaffey, Bowden, Kellaway, Gaspar, Johnson etc are just not good enough. These players are very limited and don't have what it requires to turn a game on its head. And as they are coached by a dud, it is no surprise that we have only won 3 out of 20.
No amount of excuses can hide these facts!!
No amount of excuses can hide these facts!!
struggletown3121 said:
Well, on the football side, I believe that the last trade period flagged a change of direction and co-ordinated plan of attack that perhaps we haven't seen before. Miller and the recruitment guys have obviously targeted people that really WANT to play for Richmond, and have some talent (eg. Roach, Gilmour, Raines...Johnson the previous year, and I have heard for 2 years now that Nathan Brown WANTED to come to Richmond). Also guys like Morrison and Weller, while yet to really fire and who knows they may not, are very keen to succeed at a club that is willing to give them a go. IMO that's preferable to the Blumfield-style recruitment that may backfire ie, did he really want to be at Tigerland?
I think we also have guys like Kym Monteath & Travis Cloke in our sights — obviously genuine football talent has to be the over-riding factor, but if we can go hard for these blokes who want to wear the yellow and black, then that is a great step forward in breeding a winning culture amongst the playing group.
I strongly believe that the current administration's efforts to honour Danny's contract and support him to the end is an important stepping stone towards maturing our culture and creating the right atmosphere for the right successor, should that become clearly necessary as the season unfolds. We need to rid ourselves of the "ruthless Richmond" tag that has plagued us, and affected us so directly on the field.
We have worked damn hard to get our membership up to 27,000 after two very poor years. While we are obviously struggling financially, and this administration is by no means without blame, I think Ian Campbell is beavering away well at top end sponsorships, and we are well positioned to capitalise on (hopefully) some on field success that may come our way in the next 2-3 years as our young guys come through and we continue to weed out the duds.
I think there is an awful lot to be hopeful about, and an awful lot to be supportive of at Richmond.
As that great tiger-skin wearer Rachel Hunter once said, "It won't happen overnight, but it WILL happen."
[quote author=Dean3 I think we also have guys like Kym Monteath & Travis Cloke in our sights — obviously genuine football talent has to be the over-riding factor, but if we can go hard for these blokes who want to wear the yellow and black, then that is a great step forward in breeding a winning culture amongst the playing group
I would think that this winning culture is already being learnt by the younger players Dean.
I have been a bagger of the figureheads of the club that are there to cop it or take in the accolades when things go well.
And i have had my doubts on the actual blue print that has been put down by Miller, purely because of his long association and love of the roos.
I bad spud, mainly because for me its a given fact, he cant coach. He might be the allround nice guy, and he is determined to make people like me eat my words, but with every week of determination the facts just mount up against him, to the extent where sometimes i think it might be a blind obsession with him to porve his critics wrong, hence losing focus on the real job at hand. But that is another story.
Back to the winning culture, the one most pleasing factor so far this year is happening down at coburg.
Supporters scream for youngsters do be promoted to the seniors and yes, the cream in Harto and Techno are getting a taste, with a little for Jay.
But i really believe that the youngsters that are now forming what is going to be the next big assault on a rise up the ladder should be kept away from what is happening in the seniors.
They need to form that unit that will be the unit that eventually the next generation of leadership group come from, and they must have an undeniable thirst for success because they are used to it..not a hunger for success from the lack of it..you lose focus when your hunger is so great that you run faster when you should have run maybe a little slower and played the way you did when you shone in the junior leagues.
In the wash up..yes..give the kids a taste of the big time..but dont underestimate the value of this group of kids winning game after game at Coburg
I would think that this winning culture is already being learnt by the younger players Dean.
I have been a bagger of the figureheads of the club that are there to cop it or take in the accolades when things go well.
And i have had my doubts on the actual blue print that has been put down by Miller, purely because of his long association and love of the roos.
I bad spud, mainly because for me its a given fact, he cant coach. He might be the allround nice guy, and he is determined to make people like me eat my words, but with every week of determination the facts just mount up against him, to the extent where sometimes i think it might be a blind obsession with him to porve his critics wrong, hence losing focus on the real job at hand. But that is another story.
Back to the winning culture, the one most pleasing factor so far this year is happening down at coburg.
Supporters scream for youngsters do be promoted to the seniors and yes, the cream in Harto and Techno are getting a taste, with a little for Jay.
But i really believe that the youngsters that are now forming what is going to be the next big assault on a rise up the ladder should be kept away from what is happening in the seniors.
They need to form that unit that will be the unit that eventually the next generation of leadership group come from, and they must have an undeniable thirst for success because they are used to it..not a hunger for success from the lack of it..you lose focus when your hunger is so great that you run faster when you should have run maybe a little slower and played the way you did when you shone in the junior leagues.
In the wash up..yes..give the kids a taste of the big time..but dont underestimate the value of this group of kids winning game after game at Coburg
I 'm right in your corner on this subject Dean3
I say lets give a new coach a go with these "losers" and if there still not measuring up THEN cut them.All the players mentioned(bagged) on this thread have shown glimpses of being top players at various times.Just not consistently.
Malthouse and Collingwood in 2002 and 2003 are a prime example of what can acheived by a good coach with a couple of guns and another dozen good ordinary players.
I say lets give a new coach a go with these "losers" and if there still not measuring up THEN cut them.All the players mentioned(bagged) on this thread have shown glimpses of being top players at various times.Just not consistently.
Malthouse and Collingwood in 2002 and 2003 are a prime example of what can acheived by a good coach with a couple of guns and another dozen good ordinary players.
Dean and Evo,I hope your both right but it seems far too speculative for me.We are finally developing some kids,and after next season a whole new batch will come through as well if the axe is justafiably weilded on more non-performers.
But rather than dismiss Harrys comments,he is right in identifying our leadership group as very poor by AFL standards.
We are no different to any other club blooding there youth either,we'll have a few good ones and a few bad ones and l cant see the giant strides taking place with the coaching and admin issues being of such critical importance at this stage either.
Ian Campbell has a great CV but has been anonamous all season...why??
But rather than dismiss Harrys comments,he is right in identifying our leadership group as very poor by AFL standards.
We are no different to any other club blooding there youth either,we'll have a few good ones and a few bad ones and l cant see the giant strides taking place with the coaching and admin issues being of such critical importance at this stage either.
Ian Campbell has a great CV but has been anonamous all season...why??
evo said:
I would think that the all prospective wannabe Richmond coaches are already doing their homework on who and what has to be done at tigerland in respect to on field personnel.
Yes, they we might be saying its going to take time to form a succsessful unit, but i would think that there are few notepads already with notes sitting on desks in a few homes.
Notes on where this player might be of better use.
Notes on where this player needs to improve.
And in big red writing, notes on the players that now are part of the side that dont fit into the first 2 notes.
And beside each of these players in red there is a not in green that states get this player of promote this player.
Couple that with a few game plans fitting the personnel that they require to execute, and the nouse and the second to none approach to succeed, and you have what to me looks pretty much like a Dennis Pagan type coach.
The only one that fits that bill IMO is plough.
I think the problem with Richmond over recent times may not be so much a loser mentality but a soft mentality.
From what I can gather the club as a whole has been soft on the player group. Not just Frawley but also his assistants and admin.
A number of senior players should have been dropped like hot spuds years ago. Made to spend weeks at Coburg to really think things over.
I'll probably sound like the coodhavebeens Peter from Peterborough now but I believe Richmond has lacked discipline for years.
Remember Hafey was big on it during our golden era.
I think Rosy is right about the contracts. I can't stand the thought of under performing players collecting huge payouts for doing bugger all. Wish they were all on pure commission. That would sort them out.
Lets just hope our next coach is a tough, uncompromising character who won't take crap from the players.
From what I can gather the club as a whole has been soft on the player group. Not just Frawley but also his assistants and admin.
A number of senior players should have been dropped like hot spuds years ago. Made to spend weeks at Coburg to really think things over.
I'll probably sound like the coodhavebeens Peter from Peterborough now but I believe Richmond has lacked discipline for years.
Remember Hafey was big on it during our golden era.
I think Rosy is right about the contracts. I can't stand the thought of under performing players collecting huge payouts for doing bugger all. Wish they were all on pure commission. That would sort them out.
Lets just hope our next coach is a tough, uncompromising character who won't take crap from the players.
I'd like to thank Rosy for putting in a hopeful post in these difficult times. The optimism of many people here are at times what keeps me supporting the club. There will be change at Tigerland at the end of this season and I think it will be change for the better. In regards to hard training I remember both Frawley and Gieschen pledged this and then never delivered. This time I want a coach who tells it like it is and knows what winning is all about.
I don't think getting rid of proven players is going to help the club at all, either. How does that look to a youngster if we shaft some guy with time on his contract for no reason other than he's not at the Michael Voss standard. Yes, great advertisement and enticement to play for Richmond.
I don't think getting rid of proven players is going to help the club at all, either. How does that look to a youngster if we shaft some guy with time on his contract for no reason other than he's not at the Michael Voss standard. Yes, great advertisement and enticement to play for Richmond.
