His reward was a premiership and another chapter in the legend. Reckon most would trade that for what’s happened since. It’s what team success is built on, sacrifice. It’s ironic, often the bigger the sacrifice the bigger the reward.
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Bachar Houli - بشار حولي,
- Thread starter Baloo
- Start date
At the end of the day, the AFL's list and salary cap rules dissuade clubs from keeping senior players on as depth players later in their careers. It's sad that equalisation measures incentivise clubs to push non-best 22 senior players out the door ASAP, but that's the reality. We will never know if Houli would've bounced back to play another 2-3 years of good football.
That's true.
People were saying Jack Riewoldt's body was shot 2 years ago though, so it's difficult to tell if a player over 30 has a temporary performance dip vs chronic performance decline.
The rules we operate under encourage us to be trigger happy, which is sad, but it's the reality unfortunately.
Of the back 7, we can exclude the 4 KPPs/defensive mediums, as Houli's position isn't affected by them.
Our best 22 would include 3 of the following:
Stack
Rioli
Short
Mansell
Baker
Mid-year, I think it's been said we suggested to Houli that he might continue. Since then, Rioli and Stack emerged down back. I agree that both should be selected ahead of Houli in the backline moving forward. Also, we have Jack Dyer medallist Short as a non-discussion to be selected ahead of Houli. That's 3 of the 3 available best 22 spots filled by younger talents who should be able to match Houli's output, more or less.
After that, we also have Jack Titus Medallist Liam Baker as the next man in line for injury, followed by a competent player in reserve (but is a level below Houli's output). That would leave Houli firmly in the backup-in-case-of-injury category.
The only way Houli plays next year is if 2-3 of Rioli, Stack, Short, Mansell, or Baker get injured and/or play in other positions.
1. Baker is a fair chance to play midfield with Cotchin/Edwards/Lambert/Martin all over 30 and returning from injury.
2. Stack is most likely staying down back, but a great preseason could see him move into the midfield.
That would leave Rioli/Short/Mansell as our premiership defenders with nobody in reserve. But if we're committed to Dow/RCD/Ross types for next year's midfield, then Baker/Stack/Rioli/Short remain preferable down back, which pushes Houli out to about 2nd/3rd in reserve for his position. That would mean ultimately we're selecting Dow or RCD over Houli, with confidence in Mansell, which is a decision made with the future in mind.
In conclusion, the depth player argument is reasonable, but it also suggests the club is willing to take a chance on having a weaker/more vulnerable backline for next year's finals series. We're continuing to take a responsible, long-term approach to list management. With the rules we operate under, I can see why we made this decision, and I guess my frustration lies with the rules we operate under rather than the decision made by the club.
That's true.
People were saying Jack Riewoldt's body was shot 2 years ago though, so it's difficult to tell if a player over 30 has a temporary performance dip vs chronic performance decline.
The rules we operate under encourage us to be trigger happy, which is sad, but it's the reality unfortunately.
Of the back 7, we can exclude the 4 KPPs/defensive mediums, as Houli's position isn't affected by them.
Our best 22 would include 3 of the following:
Stack
Rioli
Short
Mansell
Baker
Mid-year, I think it's been said we suggested to Houli that he might continue. Since then, Rioli and Stack emerged down back. I agree that both should be selected ahead of Houli in the backline moving forward. Also, we have Jack Dyer medallist Short as a non-discussion to be selected ahead of Houli. That's 3 of the 3 available best 22 spots filled by younger talents who should be able to match Houli's output, more or less.
After that, we also have Jack Titus Medallist Liam Baker as the next man in line for injury, followed by a competent player in reserve (but is a level below Houli's output). That would leave Houli firmly in the backup-in-case-of-injury category.
The only way Houli plays next year is if 2-3 of Rioli, Stack, Short, Mansell, or Baker get injured and/or play in other positions.
1. Baker is a fair chance to play midfield with Cotchin/Edwards/Lambert/Martin all over 30 and returning from injury.
2. Stack is most likely staying down back, but a great preseason could see him move into the midfield.
That would leave Rioli/Short/Mansell as our premiership defenders with nobody in reserve. But if we're committed to Dow/RCD/Ross types for next year's midfield, then Baker/Stack/Rioli/Short remain preferable down back, which pushes Houli out to about 2nd/3rd in reserve for his position. That would mean ultimately we're selecting Dow or RCD over Houli, with confidence in Mansell, which is a decision made with the future in mind.
In conclusion, the depth player argument is reasonable, but it also suggests the club is willing to take a chance on having a weaker/more vulnerable backline for next year's finals series. We're continuing to take a responsible, long-term approach to list management. With the rules we operate under, I can see why we made this decision, and I guess my frustration lies with the rules we operate under rather than the decision made by the club.
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People were, yeah. Club didn't move on Jack though.
Dimma and the club would have had detailed discussions with Burge and his team to get their opinion as well. Likelihood of recurring injuries, length of rehab times etc etc. Sure none of that is 100% guarantee but its those guys that would know better than anyone.
Houli was loved by all, on field and off field at the club. He was a leader and a living example of the Richmond Man culture. Not only his off field demeanour, but the bloke that played most of the 2020 Grand Final with a torn calf because the club needed him too. Most of us punters had no idea what had happened, we just thought Houli wasn't having a typical Houli GF game.
Any good leader, let alone great leader like Dimma, of people will not call it a day on a team member like that unless it really was time. In fact, you could even think their decision was for Houli's benefit if Burge and co thought the outlook was bleak but Houli refused to believe it.
I can't think of the last time we treated a player unfairly. It's too much a leap to believe we'd do it to Houli.
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If you consider Grimes/Balta/Vlastuin/Broad to be locks when fit then it leaves room for two runners.
B&F results suggest Houli's contribution this year wasn't rated highly (below all but Mansell on votes per match). Need to clear the decks a little with six draftees possibly incoming.
Whatever happened to the veteran's allowance which allowed clubs to keep these ageing greats on for another year or two at a discounted salary?
Has that been abolished among all the other cap reductions etc?
It was done away with a few years ago.
Once the AFL (before sHocking) realised Geelong had *15 players* with Geelong getting nearly $1.5 million worth of payments discounted.
Or some such foolishness.
I believe it got absorbed into an increase of the TPP
Don't have to like it, but the alternative is a list full of almost achieving pensioners rather than a list of always developing n growing possibility.
Bigger list means more developing players and the possibility to keep one or two oldies around.
DS
Game simply can’t afford bigger lists in today’s COVID world - let alone if there is ever a 19th team.
Nothing to stop a club keeping oldies now if they want (Burgoyne) but it becomes very hard to justify
Never gunna be going back to lists of 100 players n three teams. Lucky to be still carrying 45 players plus top ups to enable clubs to have ressies. Some of the modern thinking experts want clubs to have squads of about 30 elite senior players n bugger the rest off to random unaffiliated competitions.
Always and forever the beautiful man. I hope his life outside of football exceeds his legendary performance within it.
Our community and society needs men like him.
Our community and society needs men like him.
Went one too many I reckon.
But when you're part of a successful side like that and well enmeshed within the club its gonna be real hard to let go.
Unfortunate end for Bash but it was always on the cards that he wasn't going to be going on any longer once Rioli had re invigorated himself on his flank.
I think it speaks volumes that Essendon have put it on record that letting Bach go was their greatest mistake in recent times. Be hard pressed to get a bigger steal, absolute legend of the RFC.
