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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Atheism
- Thread starter Disco08
- Start date
evo said:
No, I just believe in playing the ball not the man.
I agree there is some awful "science" coming from some parts of the Christian community (esp about the whole age of the world stuff - love the pictures they have of people living with dinosaurs), but I don't like some of the blanket statements where all biblical scholars are biased and using incorrect methods. Its an absolute statement, and unless you know/have studied a fair chunk of the community, its an unfair stance to have.
Its like the "all athiests have no morality" argument that has been made by the otherside from time to time. Its absolute, without foundation, and ridiculous.
Much better to do as Pathera tends to do, which is respond to the specific websites/people Jay, Djevv, and TT2 have posted (and has backfired on them several times as the sources in some sites were pretty poor).
Tiger74 said:
Pointing out a methodological problem is hardly "playing the man" T74. Neither is pointing out that studying a text is not equivalent to real scientific empirical research.
I'd be interested to see you actually address the content of what I actually write in my posts rather than jumping to a wacky conclusion about "playing the man".
antman said:
You were saying the methodology flaw was for ALL in that field though, and thats what I had issue with.
As for the point you were making (re: content), the reason I haven't comment is I agree with you, so other than doing the usual PRE "top post :clap" there wasn't anything else to add.
This is a pretty good quote from Hitch. A big hear hear from me...
I am not even an atheist so much as I am an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful. .... I do not envy believers their faith. I am relieved to think that the whole story is a sinister fairy tale; life would be miserable if what the faithful affirmed was actually the case. Why do I say that? Well, there may be people who wish to live their lives under a cradle-to-grave divine supervision; a permanent surveillance and monitoring. But I cannot imagine anything more horrible or grotesque.(p. 55)
I am not even an atheist so much as I am an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful. .... I do not envy believers their faith. I am relieved to think that the whole story is a sinister fairy tale; life would be miserable if what the faithful affirmed was actually the case. Why do I say that? Well, there may be people who wish to live their lives under a cradle-to-grave divine supervision; a permanent surveillance and monitoring. But I cannot imagine anything more horrible or grotesque.(p. 55)
He's speaking for us here Pantera......
A true believer must believe that he or she is here for a purpose and is an object of real interest to a Supreme Being; he or she must also claim to have at least an inkling of what that Supreme Being desires. I have been called arrogant myself in my time, and hope to earn the title again, but to claim that I am privy to the secrets of the universe and its creator - that's beyond my conceit. (p. 57)
A true believer must believe that he or she is here for a purpose and is an object of real interest to a Supreme Being; he or she must also claim to have at least an inkling of what that Supreme Being desires. I have been called arrogant myself in my time, and hope to earn the title again, but to claim that I am privy to the secrets of the universe and its creator - that's beyond my conceit. (p. 57)
Hitchins just wants people to think for themselves.As do I
This sums up what he wants for the world....
Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the "transcendant" and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.(p. 140)
This sums up what he wants for the world....
Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the "transcendant" and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.(p. 140)
evo said:
I liked the last two sentences, and the first and the sixth. For me though I found the rest a little sad. Does he also reject things like friendship and love unless you are a dominating party? Also why reject compassion? That one in particular baffled me. Not all compassion is about control or domination, sometimes its just about empathy, and caring about someone when they are down. Life would be very lonely and sad I think if you were to reject such gestures.
evo said:
Agree on that Evo, but this is not just a thought he is suggesting, but the way life should be. A life where you reject everything outside yourself, even in my athiest days I couldn't buy that. We are a social beast, and we need human contact, interaction, and love. Life without this is like a BBQ without beer. Sure, you still get your snags and a bit of steak, but it just ain't right.
Tiger74 said:
Interesting posts you 2. Chaim Potok's novel The Promise partially explores the dangers when people get too focussed on the intellectual. The balance between the intellect and emotions (or Sense and Sensibility to quote another author) is an internal dialogue I sometimes have.
To me, the intellect has to be supreme, because it's the basis of each persons reality. But clearly we've developed as a social species and neglect our emotional needs at our peril.
