As l see it | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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As l see it

FightingFury

Its back to Brooke time again!
Nov 25, 2003
6,488
2
Richmond
Im rapt l was at the game friday night,it was an exciting finish and a brilliant result for the team and the club as well as giving the hardcore fans a time to remember.

I dont see myself as a brightsider, there are way too many concerning issues at the minute that are not being addressed.
The resignations from the board were shrouded with secrecy and left us to guessing what the agenda for the resignations were.
The finances are alarming to say the least.
The members have the right to know what the hell has happened to a 600,000 surplus in 02,to projections of 2 million $ losses at seasons end.
If satisfactory reasons can't be given(eg simply blaming poor on field results) or addressed then don't be surprised to see upheavals or an emergency AGM called for.
The president of our club must come up with some damn good answers IMO to continue in his current role,but thats not for me alone to decide, the members as a whole will be the judge and jury for this matter.
Recruitment has been a MAJOR problem for years fast becoming decades now.
Im a outspoken critic of our recruiting manager and his staff he oversees, and as l have taken up acres of space on this site with why l won't go on again, suffice to say the 8 years Greg Beck has had have been disappointing and have been one of the reasons we are not progressing on-field.

Watching the match it was clear to me that even though we won,we are probably still the wost side in the comp.
I'll be slaughtered by some for this assessment(fair enough) but these are my reasons:
We jumped the Hawks through sheer endeavor and a willingness to play for the first 20mins.
It was fantastic to see such intensity from our guys and Hawthorn were momentarily rattled and so we jumped away with guys like Hilton, who seemed desperate to cement his spot, stepping up.
Great start.
Unfortunately the game from thereon unfolded as l feared it would.
Hawthorn made tactical changes, our intensity began to wane and as they worked their way back into the game and our flawed gameplan and skill levels deteriorated under pressure again(I am fearful what will happen when we travel interstate when we are going to be under constant pressure from moments bounce)
Once again Frawley reverted to stacking guys back to stifle the oppositions thrust forward,but in the process denied us the attack that had provided a handy lead early...Was l the only one dimayed to see a player run the ball out of defence only to slow down to wait for a player to appear upfield??
It defeats the whole purpose of thrusting forward!!
Our players must also be accountable for not getting numbers forward quick enough and for the poor disposal that led to turn overs resulting in goals to Hawthorn.It was pleasing to see we were playing on in general rather than stagnating which was encouraging though.
We were poor in the second and third quarters and l watched Ottens start to lose all faith in his rovers and began trying to ruck and rove his own work.We kicked to contests where our players were outnumbered and wouldn't run the neccessary hard yards to provide options.
Blokes like Hilton were now becoming exposed for a lack of fitness.
The last quarter we gutsed out rather than won the game.We merely hung on through desperation rather than skill.
I also thought Hawthorn made some shocking errors and showed a lack of brains which helped too.

I was nervous and overjoyed when the siren sounded and shouted the song out like a lunatic.
This is probably why l'll never be a darksider either as a few of them have mentioned they didn't care about the result, well l watch RFC players live out my Childhood dream every week and when lm at a game l feel emotion for them and love seeing them win.
Are the priority picks more important than winning?
More importantly, are we going to have the right Administration guiding the club??
Will we finally have a successful coaching staff to take us
upwards??
And importantly will we use any of the picks we land astutely
and finally have Australias best youth in Richmond guernseys in 2005??
Burning questions and important times at tigerland.

Oh and if my assesment is seen as negative its not meant to be,its my honest opinion of where we're at right now.
Any win will be a bonus.
Yes Cogs and Richo will be back but every club has injuries and its nieve to think you'll go into every game at full strength.
GO THE TIGES
 
Very fair assessment Struggletown although i will say this about fridays nights performance.Hawthorn played a hell of alot better in the 2nd half.Despite what people are saying now that they have been beaten by Richmond,Hawthorn are actually a good side.Holland and Croad not withstanding.Crawford,Mitchell,Vandenburg,Lekkas,Brown and Everritt are a pretty formidable midfield.Remember they were touted as a top 4 side by many pundits and bookmakers alike before the season started.One of the main reason our midfield "reverted back to old bad habits" is because basically,as other have mention,Hilton was buggered ,Schulz was our only marking option and Brown was starting to get beaten by Crawford.Sometimes you have to give some credit to our midfileders who would've also realised this.

I'm by no means a brightsider either,but I reckon with Richo and Stafford added to the forward line to the side that played on Friday night things aren't as bad as they looked this time last week.It's amazing what a difference a little bit of endeavour can make to a teams performance.

You absolutely right in regards to a recruiting,it has been deplorable by any measure.Having said that we seemed to have got a bargain in Hartigan and Roach is looking quite positive too.

I'm with you in regards to the singing of the song,I don't think I've enjoyed a Richmond win more in years.I just can't imagine enjoying a loss,just so we can get an extra draft choice,like some seem to on this site.
 
great post struggletown.i agree fair enough we won and probally deserved to win it more so than the hawks.however at the end of the day we still have a longggggggggg way to go to even challenge for a final 8 position.
the only pleasing thing is that through greg miller we are slowly but surely weeding out the deadwood.ok we gave up our 1st rnd pick for brown however that was money well spent as it has shown already.to compensate this we drafted bottom aged kids who hopefully at least 2 of them will make the grade.
im looking fwd to next year with so many freshed faced kids with no baggage.
 
struggles and evo we on the darkside hate losing just as much as the next guy.its just that our opinion of our list rightly or wrongly is very poor. we see the need of priority and early picks far out weighs winning a few games and finishing mid table once again and missing out on the high quality kids that will ultimaely take us to finals footy.it seems to me most brightsiders want to get there without doing the hard yards something the rfc have been guilty of for 22 yrs.
lets take a leaf out of freo stk melb dogs book and start building a side piecemeal.
as for every thing else you have said im with evo a very fair assesment.
 
Holy moses, Struggles, that was like reading war and peace!!! Agree with your assessments though, particularly the administation side of things - very alarming situation. Otto played one of his best for ages but some of his taps are still going to straight to opposition players. Not sure if this is his fault or the midfielders, either way this aspect of our game needs fixing fast. A little more culling of the deadwood by Miller at the years end and we will slowly begin to build the future.
 
Excellent post struggle. We may not always agree, but it's great to see a heartfelt assessment without the use of the words "dud", "hack", "loser", etc, etc.

For the most part, I think you're points are fair and well made.

With regard to the fact that we let Hawthorn back into the game after the first quarter, I think you picked the reason nicely (and it's the same reason that we get into that exact position so often). The opposition coach makes a few tactical moves, our coaching dept find themselves being outcoached and resort to defensive tactics, with no regard to the style of play that got us the lead in the first place.

The players, finding the pressure on and with a recent history of losing six or seven games for every win, put themselves under even more pressure, blokes panic, fail to take the first option and lose the confidence to take a chance in order to break the game open.

Danny Frawley should just show the tape of the first twenty minutes of Friday night and say, "For the rest of the year, no matter what state the scoreboard is in, that's how we want to play." We might lose a few games that way, but I reckon we'd be much better prepared for 2005 for it.

And, like you, I really feel for the players (and coaches) when the game is on. You're right in saying they are living out our childhood dream every time they take the field. When they make a mistake, I hurt for them, too.

Finally, as for the administration side of things.... :mad: Gee, don't get me started. I was a big supporter of Casey and although I'm not ready to call for his head, I do want to know where the money has gone.
 
the claw said:
struggles and evo we on the darkside hate losing just as much as the next guy.its just that our opinion of our list rightly or wrongly is very poor. we see the need of priority and early picks far out weighs winning a few games and finishing mid table once again and missing out on the high quality kids that will ultimaely take us to finals footy.it seems to me most brightsiders want to get there without doing the hard yards something the rfc have been guilty of for 22 yrs.
lets take a leaf out of freo stk melb dogs book and start building a side piecemeal.
as for every thing else you have said  im with evo a very fair assesment.

Exactly !!
 
Harry said:
the claw said:
struggles and evo we on the darkside hate losing just as much as the next guy.its just that our opinion of our list rightly or wrongly is very poor. we see the need of priority and early picks far out weighs winning a few games and finishing mid table once again and missing out on the high quality kids that will ultimaely take us to finals footy.it seems to me most brightsiders want to get there without doing the hard yards something the rfc have been guilty of for 22 yrs.
lets take a leaf out of freo stk melb dogs book and start building a side piecemeal.
as for every thing else you have said  im with evo a very fair assesment.

Exactly !!


I accept we may have to take a step backward to take two forward, but answer me this..
Can you be assured given RFC and Greg Becks early draft pick history that we are guaranteed to select Australias best available talent if we do end up with priority selections?
 
Hey Smuggletown - I see what you are saying.

However if we have the first 2 picks for example, they would basically pick themselves and you wouldn't need the input of Beck.  Everyone knew that Cooney and Walker were the first 2 picks this year, and that Goddard and Wells were the first 2 the previous year. 

IMO the top 5-7 basically pick themselves, give or take a couple. You need astute recruiting for draft picks after that and this is where Beck has let us down.  Sure he's picked up a few good ones in the latter picks but he's severly stuffed up the earlier ones.

To further answer your question, RFC have to get rid of Beck asap and appoint someone who's better credentialed for the job.
 
I think we should trade Bowden to play with his brother at the Bulldogs so we can pick up Robert Murphy (who is a Richmond supporter)
 
Harry said:
Hey Smuggletown - I see what you are saying.

However if we have the first 2 picks for example, they would basically pick themselves and you wouldn't need the imput of Beck.  Everyone knew that Cooney and Walker were the first 2 picks this year, and that Goddard and Wells were the first 2 the previous year. 

IMO the top 5-7 basically pick themselves, give or take a couple. You need astute recruiting for draft picks after that and this is where Beck has let us down.  Sure he's picked up a few good ones in the latter picks but he's severly stuffed up the earlier ones.

To further answer your question, RFC have to get rid of Beck asap and appoint someone who's better credentialed for the job.



Harry your right in saying that the top five are nearly assured of being able to play, but the Danny Roaches and Luke Livingstons are still out there!!
Its crucial we get the Chis Judds instead of the Aaron Fioras this time around though
 
TigerForce said:
I think we should trade Bowden to play with his brother at the Bulldogs so we can pick up Robert Murphy (who is a Richmond supporter)

Are you assuming the bulldogs would want to trade Bowden for Murphy!!!! Cant see it ever happening but would be rapt if they did!!!!
 
struggletown3121 said:
TigerForce said:
I think we should trade Bowden to play with his brother at the Bulldogs so we can pick up Robert Murphy (who is a Richmond supporter)

Are you assuming the bulldogs would want to trade Bowden for Murphy!!!! Cant see it ever happening but would be rapt if they did!!!!

no they wont buy that trade struggle, but lets make it a package deal...add fiora and chaffey to the trade..and get a draft pick off them as well as robert murphy.
Lets not forget that the rest of the league think that they are valuable players..so lets work on that.

I said it early last year about brown, and i will say it about murphy...get him to the tigers a.s.a.p.
 
Hi Struggletown et al,
Great assessment but then degenerated into talk about potential trades. Not really holding the Board accountable are we.
Question is, do we really want to go down Carlton's path of organising a petition to be signed by members at the next home game for an emergency AGM. That's the next alternative if you really want to hold the Board accountable.
If you do, I'll be there. You'll recognise dressed as Fidel Castro.
 
I agree in most parts with your assessment Struggletown, particularly the parts about the board. The one thing I will say, however, is that even though we squandered a good early lead, I was pleased to see us hang on for a close win. This is the sort of game that I have seen us lose so many of in recent times, get an early lead, the opposition fights back and we fall over and lose a close one. It was nice to see them fight it out "until the final siren's gone" and win one of these games.
 
Excellent analysis but I'd cut Beck a bit of slack.

Fiora was rated at the time by most a better prospect than Pavlich.

Frawley overruled Beck on taking Pettifer.

Newman/Cogs/Krak/Zantuck (Although he was taken so late because he was a bottom-age player) were perceptive selections as will Hartigan prove to be.

Duds have been your James Whites/Ben Moores/Scott Homewoods/Ezra Poyas' but hey we're no Robinson Crusoe there my fellow ferals.

I rate Beck as quite an astute judge although 8 years is possibly enough at the one club and a new set of eyes wouldn't hurt.
 
CrazyTiger said:
Excellent analysis but I'd cut Beck a bit of slack.

Fiora was rated at the time by most a better prospect than Pavlich.

Frawley overruled Beck on taking Pettifer.

Newman/Cogs/Krak/Zantuck (Although he was taken so late because he was a bottom-age player) were perceptive selections as will Hartigan prove to be.

Duds have been your James Whites/Ben Moores/Scott Homewoods/Ezra Poyas' but hey we're no Ribinson Crusoe there my fellow ferals.

I rate Beck as quite an astute judge although 8 years is possibly enough at the one club and a new set of eyes wouldn't hurt.


Pat Steinfort John Rombotis Aaron James Matthew Grieg(3 years no games) Daniel Sipthorpe Craig Biddiscome Clinton King
Paul Greenham phew we are alone!!
 
struggletown3121 said:
CrazyTiger said:
Excellent analysis but I'd cut Beck a bit of slack.

Fiora was rated at the time by most a better prospect than Pavlich.

Frawley overruled Beck on taking Pettifer.

Newman/Cogs/Krak/Zantuck (Although he was taken so late because he was a bottom-age player) were perceptive selections as will Hartigan prove to be.

Duds have been your James Whites/Ben Moores/Scott Homewoods/Ezra Poyas' but hey we're no Ribinson Crusoe there my fellow ferals.

I rate Beck as quite an astute judge although 8 years is possibly enough at the one club and a new set of eyes wouldn't hurt.


Pat Steinfort  John Rombotis  Aaron James  Matthew Grieg(3 years no games) Daniel Sipthorpe Craig Biddiscome Clinton King
Paul Greenham phew we are alone!!

dont forget Paul Hudson
 
dmx said:
struggletown3121 said:
TigerForce said:
I think we should trade Bowden to play with his brother at the Bulldogs so we can pick up Robert Murphy (who is a Richmond supporter)

Are you assuming the bulldogs would want to trade Bowden for Murphy!!!! Cant see it ever happening but would be rapt if they did!!!!

no they wont buy that trade struggle, but lets make it a package deal...add fiora and chaffey to the trade..and get a draft pick off them as well as robert murphy.
Lets not forget that the rest of the league think that they are valuable players..so lets work on that.

I said it early last year about brown, and i will say it about murphy...get him to the tigers a.s.a.p.
doubt that will happen,i heard tiges had a good crack at murph last year,only to see him resign with doggies
 
WildTiger said:
struggletown3121 said:
CrazyTiger said:
Excellent analysis but I'd cut Beck a bit of slack.

Fiora was rated at the time by most a better prospect than Pavlich.

Frawley overruled Beck on taking Pettifer.

Newman/Cogs/Krak/Zantuck (Although he was taken so late because he was a bottom-age player) were perceptive selections as will Hartigan prove to be.

Duds have been your James Whites/Ben Moores/Scott Homewoods/Ezra Poyas' but hey we're no Ribinson Crusoe there my fellow ferals.

I rate Beck as quite an astute judge although 8 years is possibly enough at the one club and a new set of eyes wouldn't hurt.


Pat Steinfort  John Rombotis  Aaron James  Matthew Grieg(3 years no games) Daniel Sipthorpe Craig Biddiscome Clinton King
Paul Greenham phew we are alone!!

dont forget Paul Hudson

I don't think that it was Greg Becks idea to draft Hudson, Biddiscombe or Clinton King. The football department and coaching staff must be held accountable for our poor record in failing to turn previously tried players around.