AFL and Concussion - Angus Brayshaw retirement | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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AFL and Concussion - Angus Brayshaw retirement

He had the option to extend the arms and absorb contact while coming down from the attempted smother. duty of care to ensure you don't hurt your opponent. If anything it took more effort and time to turn the body and apply a bump. I'm gobsmacked none of the "experts" couldn't see this.
Harry.
Maynard's hit wasn't a Voss/Richardson hit or Miles/Pickering hit.
Maynard could do that 100 times on different players and I reckon less then 10% would get Knocked out. Hurt yes but kod NO.
If he did it to Pickett or Baker they wouldn't have been Kod.
Bradshaw and MCCartin were getting concussion with the slightest head impact.
The best result happened yesterday.
Protect the player for his own future
 
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Boy the bias and ignorance is dripping in here.

Maynard didnt end Brayshaws career. Playing football exposed him to concussion.
We want/can"t wait for Lefau to iron out a succession of opposition players. You dont reckon this might have some long term consequences for his "victims"?

Cotchin was not attacking the ball when he bumped Shiel. He looked at Shiel before driving his shoulder into him. He went lower and harder snd initiated his sction earlier than Shirl. Could that action have long term consequences for Shiel?
BTW I don't think he should have been suspended for it.

Football is dangerous. Not sure you can play a 360 degree contact sport at the speed they do and make it safe.
… or the AFL could adjudicate the game consistently, thereby eliminating most, if not all, of the worst incidences of concussion.

The AFL runs around frantically trying to “loosen” the game, actively crippling successful teams in doing so, whilst ignoring the players’ fundamental right to play without being concussed.

Because some decisions are too hard.
 
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I said it at the time and I'll say it again, the Maynard / Brayshaw incident was a huge line in sand moment for the AFL. If they were even half serious about concussion Maynard had to go. I was amazed at the time and still am that they were so intent on sending the message that they don't take the issue seriously.
This

The game is under genuine threat unless these idiots start to take concussion seriously.
Parents won't have their kids play the game & it will die.

And this
 
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if maynard got rubbed out then collingwood are denied a flag

if the AFL actually applied consistent and coherent penalties I guarantee you the players wouldn't be leaping straight into people's heads
But that's not the sole reason Brayshaw has retired. Nor Seedsman, Picken, Adams.....the list goes on. It is clear not all players react the same way to head knocks and violent contact.

Like everything, it is complicated, but many football supporters don't like nuance.

The Maynard pile on is typical bogan bandwagon stuff - the ugly side of football supporters on full display.

BTW how many times have you seen what Maynard did occur on a footy field?
 
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Maynard didnt end Brayshaws career. Playing football exposed him to concussion.

Yes and no. Yes Brayshaw had issues before the Maynard hit BUT it was very clear in his statement that his brain scans showed ongoing deterioration AFTER that hit. It may not have been the sole driver of his concussion issues, but the facts are that that Maynard hit DID end his career.

Would his brain have deteriorated if he hadn't had that hit, potentially, but no-one knows that. All we know from the facts are that the hit absolutely had an impact on that deterioration.

There are things that the AFL can defend in court with regards to concussion. Ie. accidental collisions that cause an inadvertent head knock. These are known events when playing a contact sport and I suspect whilst the AFL may be liable in some ways, a court of law would also see that these are entirely expected collisions that could occur and some of that "blame' I guess would be on the player that wanted to play. The real area where the AFL could be held liable for injuries that impact players futures, are off the ball hits, or non football related incidents. Jumping as Maynard did, as was said at the time is not seen often on a football field, therefore is not a "normal" football act therefore would not be expected by the player and therefore should be the exact type of incidents that they need to stamp out. They didn't do that, and then immediately changed the rules to ban it, which had inadvertently made any claim now by Brayshaw against the AFL an effective slam dunk nailed on win.
 
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… or the AFL could adjudicate the game consistently, thereby eliminating most, if not all, of the worst incidences of concussion.
That is one of the more ridiculous posts you have ever written
 
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It has becoming glaringly obvious that the AFL Commission, and by extension it’s executive, applies a political lens over every decision it makes, including judiciary decisions.

The good of the game cannot be upheld whilst such myopic governance is in play.

It has taken twenty years for clubland to enter the 21st century. Jury still out on whether Essendon and Carlton have gotten there.

I actually think the AFL, the collective who *should* be the light on the hill, have themselves failed to modernise.
 
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Might not be a popular opinion here, and good luck to AB as he was a good player to watch and seems a decent bloke too.
I watch footy these days and I'm not surprised one bit at the amount of concussions/head injuries.
Does nobody get taught how to protect themselves in contact any more?
I'm 52 and started playing senior footy in 88 at 17, back in a time when the big gorillas took great delight in ironing out the young fella, or the city boy (when I moved to regional Vic). Don't get me wrong, this is not a "things were better in my day" post, but I distinctly remember all through juniors being taught not just how to tackle and bump, but how to absorb both, how to approach a head-on situation and how to have spatial awareness of who and what were around me. Footy being a 360deg game always demanded that.
Seems now that this and that have all been outlawed or frowned upon, now you see every man and his dog leading into contact with their face and occasionally suffering the consequences.
I don't know how to address it immediately, but the next generations of players coming through absolutely need to get some of this "ancient" training about how to protect themselves in contact. Changing the game further, will only make the problem progressively worse in my opinion.
 
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Note: this Neuro professor did say though that there is also evidence to suggest some people are more physiologically prone to damage ie their brain moves inside the skull more and that tests and studies into this might mitigate the issue a bit. Personally, not sure how you tell someone they can’t play footy though because their brain is a bit loose (to use a laymans way of explaining), but anyway.

Not to worry.

North of the 70's have provided a blueprint for how to deal with this.

They had a team chock full of players with only half a brain (or less).
 
It has becoming glaringly obvious that the AFL Commission, and by extension it’s executive, applies a political lens over every decision it makes, including judiciary decisions.

This is the obvious outcome of having a group of people without brains having to deal with people who have them.
 
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That is one of the more ridiculous posts you have ever written

No, logical.

What cost to Collingwood if Maynard gets rubbed out, as he should’ve?

No chance he goes airborne so dangerously again if he costs his team a flag.

It’s about setting standards of play.

Something the AFL has grievously failed to do with its inconsistent application of laws.

The laws are already there to protect the head. All that needed to happen was for the AFL to have the guts to apply them.
 
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Yes and no. Yes Brayshaw had issues before the Maynard hit BUT it was very clear in his statement that his brain scans showed ongoing deterioration AFTER that hit. It may not have been the sole driver of his concussion issues, but the facts are that that Maynard hit DID end his career.

Would his brain have deteriorated if he hadn't had that hit, potentially, but no-one knows that. All we know from the facts are that the hit absolutely had an impact on that deterioration.

There are things that the AFL can defend in court with regards to concussion. Ie. accidental collisions that cause an inadvertent head knock. These are known events when playing a contact sport and I suspect whilst the AFL may be liable in some ways, a court of law would also see that these are entirely expected collisions that could occur and some of that "blame' I guess would be on the player that wanted to play. The real area where the AFL could be held liable for injuries that impact players futures, are off the ball hits, or non football related incidents. Jumping as Maynard did, as was said at the time is not seen often on a football field, therefore is not a "normal" football act therefore would not be expected by the player and therefore should be the exact type of incidents that they need to stamp out. They didn't do that, and then immediately changed the rules to ban it, which had inadvertently made any claim now by Brayshaw against the AFL an effective slam dunk nailed on win.
How many times have you seen the attemtped smother concuss another player?

Of course running towards a player and attempting a smother is a football action - it happens at times when you have players running into goal and the final defender runs at the player. It's what happened when Maynard landed that's caused the issue. And Brayshaw did move slightly into Maynard's path. No one will know except Maynard if he was simply bracing for contact or if he had a slightly more maliciuous intent. And no one will know if it happened to another player would they have suffered the same fate? Or were the previous dozen concussions Brayshaw suffered the reason it caused such a serious outcome?
 
Might not be a popular opinion here, and good luck to AB as he was a good player to watch and seems a decent bloke too.
I watch footy these days and I'm not surprised one bit at the amount of concussions/head injuries.
Does nobody get taught how to protect themselves in contact any more?
I'm 52 and started playing senior footy in 88 at 17, back in a time when the big gorillas took great delight in ironing out the young fella, or the city boy (when I moved to regional Vic). Don't get me wrong, this is not a "things were better in my day" post, but I distinctly remember all through juniors being taught not just how to tackle and bump, but how to absorb both, how to approach a head-on situation and how to have spatial awareness of who and what were around me. Footy being a 360deg game always demanded that.
Seems now that this and that have all been outlawed or frowned upon, now you see every man and his dog leading into contact with their face and occasionally suffering the consequences.
I don't know how to address it immediately, but the next generations of players coming through absolutely need to get some of this "ancient" training about how to protect themselves in contact. Changing the game further, will only make the problem progressively worse in my opinion.

An interesting take. We now clearly have players, and by extension possibly AFL clubs promoting this, who take measures to initiate high contact on themselves to win free kicks let alone defending themselves against the impact.

Exhibit A - Joel Selwood.
 
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BTW how many times have you seen what Maynard did occur on a footy field?

But isn't that the point? If you think of it from a legal perspective (and all sports will do that now), the emphasis will either ben seen that 1 - all contact needs to be removed because any contact can cause injury and therefore sport is dead or 2 (the more likely - there are expectations of injury in any sport, the sport in question needs to do whatever it can do to minimise any unexpected instances of danger in a workplace. You can NEVER remove all instances of danger in a workplace. In a factory for example, can you ensure 100% that people can't be injured? No but you put safety gear in place to minimise the risk, but the risk still exists and the employee signs a contract to accept that risk. Risk mitigation can be a lot of things, safety glass, specific highlighted walking areas, blowing the horn on a forklift when entering a building etc. Ie. for all those known risks you minimise but you can't eliminate but you need to be elminating the unnecessary risks.

The fact that "you don't see people doing what Maynard did" is exactly a risk that should be eliminated because it is not a football action. You don't players flying through the air like that, because you teach them to tackle as it minimises risk but still putting pressure on the player. We want in those instances to tackle, not to fly through the air like a missile which is what he did. As soon as he left the ground, he was causing an unnecessary risk, and despite what collingwood managed to argue, that was the action in question. He left the ground and he then said "well its not my fault that Brayshaws balance pushed him in front of me". To me thats a ridiculous point.
 
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Harry.
Maynard's hit wasn't a Voss/Richardson hit or Miles/Pickering hit.
Maynard could do that 100 times on different players and I reckon less then 10% would get Knocked out. Hurt yes but kod NO.

So that would come out in the penalty, still should have been cited.
 
How many times have you seen the attemtped smother concuss another player?

Of course running towards a player and attempting a smother is a football action - it happens at times when you have players running into goal and the final defender runs at the player. It's what happened when Maynard landed that's caused the issue. And Brayshaw did move slightly into Maynard's path. No one will know except Maynard if he was simply bracing for contact or if he had a slightly more maliciuous intent. And no one will know if it happened to another player would they have suffered the same fate? Or were the previous dozen concussions Brayshaw suffered the reason it caused such a serious outcome?
You can’t be serious mate

Players don’t launch themselves like cannon balls into ball carriers as defensive acts

You drive in to tackle low

Or you decide to corral, which often leads to a vertical attempt to smother
 
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How many times have you seen the attemtped smother concuss another player?

Of course running towards a player and attempting a smother is a football action - it happens at times when you have players running into goal and the final defender runs at the player. It's what happened when Maynard landed that's caused the issue. And Brayshaw did move slightly into Maynard's path. No one will know except Maynard if he was simply bracing for contact or if he had a slightly more maliciuous intent. And no one will know if it happened to another player would they have suffered the same fate? Or were the previous dozen concussions Brayshaw suffered the reason it caused such a serious outcome?

How many times do you see the incident that you describe where the final defender lunges through the sky shoulder first at the player? I don't believe Maynard planned to hurt Brayshaw, but he was making him "earn" the kick which is what we need to get out of the game.

The incident you describe, players are diving across legs to get a touch to the ball (ie. they stay low), or they jump directly up in the air to try and touch the ball. They don't run forward quickly and use that momentum to fly through the air like a missile shoulder 1st.
 
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But isn't that the point? If you think of it from a legal perspective (and all sports will do that now), the emphasis will either ben seen that 1 - all contact needs to be removed because any contact can cause injury and therefore sport is dead or 2 (the more likely - there are expectations of injury in any sport, the sport in question needs to do whatever it can do to minimise any unexpected instances of danger in a workplace. You can NEVER remove all instances of danger in a workplace. In a factory for example, can you ensure 100% that people can't be injured? No but you put safety gear in place to minimise the risk, but the risk still exists and the employee signs a contract to accept that risk. Risk mitigation can be a lot of things, safety glass, specific highlighted walking areas, blowing the horn on a forklift when entering a building etc. Ie. for all those known risks you minimise but you can't eliminate but you need to be elminating the unnecessary risks.

The fact that "you don't see people doing what Maynard did" is exactly a risk that should be eliminated because it is not a football action. You don't players flying through the air like that, because you teach them to tackle as it minimises risk but still putting pressure on the player. We want in those instances to tackle, not to fly through the air like a missile which is what he did. As soon as he left the ground, he was causing an unnecessary risk, and despite what collingwood managed to argue, that was the action in question. He left the ground and he then said "well its not my fault that Brayshaws balance pushed him in front of me". To me thats a ridiculous point.
No, I am talking about the outcome not the action. Jumping to smother is a footy action. Happens often, maybe not at the same point of the field but it does happen. Never before in my memory has it lead to a concussion. I doubt Maynard anticpated landing on Brayshaw when he was running towards him.

Trying to say if Maynard had of been suspended it would somehow protect against future concussions is simply to far a stretch IMO.
 
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