Afghanistan poll

[22nd Man]

The West cannot impose it values on other cultures. Maybe it should, should it? but can't.
There would be multiple African states whose values are far from ours, hard to justify occupying them to instil democracy and improve the lot of women.
China backing one type of Muslim while oppressing their own, but don't provoke them.
Be wary of Pakistans role in the overthrow, it's far from a friend of the West.

 

[22nd Man]

Yep, the USA is basically a moral vacuum. They poured billions into a war effort in this country, wasted the lives of 2,372 U.S. military deaths with 20,320 American service members also wounded in action, along with at least 3846 contractors killed. More than 110,000 Afghan lives lost; possibly far more.

All for ... what? To find and kill OSBL? Is that what it took? Is that what it was all about? What an incredible waste of peoples' lives. Just think how else those billions* of $$ could have been put to good use, like reducing world poverty or the effects of climate change?

The USA is really a disaster of a nation. With the unerring economic and political rise of totalitarian China in the face of systemic US incompetence and decline, it leaves me deeply concerned for our future.

* Actually just looked it up - an estimated $2.26 trillion

Do you want the US to decline or prosper? What does the world look like with a diminished US?
Who fills the vacuum ?
Wil Albo take our alliance to the election next year?

 

[eZyT]

How come we dont see the headline,

Terrorists win war on terror.

?

 

[glantone]

What does the world look like with a diminished US?

...the end of life as we currently live it.
China, Russia or the USA - select your preferred life style.

 

[MB78]

Very complex issue, but I feel that our efforts were worth a try. Imagine being female and having to live like this. I think many feminists have been very quiet on issues like the below.

Taliban kill woman for not wearing burqa

Taliban fighters shot and killed a woman for not wearing a burqa in Afghanistan Tuesday — the same day the group pledged to usher in a new inclusive era in the country that honours “women’s rights”.

www.news.com.au

 

[Harry]

Very complex issue, but I feel that our efforts were worth a try. Imagine being female and having to live like this. I think many feminists have been very quiet on issues like the below.

Taliban kill woman for not wearing burqa

Taliban fighters shot and killed a woman for not wearing a burqa in Afghanistan Tuesday — the same day the group pledged to usher in a new inclusive era in the country that honours “women’s rights”.

www.news.com.au

Not too dissimilar to the Saudi's who is an ally of the US

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

If not for September 11 the Taliban could've continued living in the Stone Age uninterrupted and nobody would've cared.

 

[leon]

Do you want the US to decline or prosper? What does the world look like with a diminished US?
Who fills the vacuum ?
Wil Albo take our alliance to the election next year?

Short answer is obvious, the US has a crucial role to lead democracy, peace and the western world. However, they really lack consistency currently due to their very divided political parties now, along with policies historically based often on acute, perceived self-interest and/or communist paranoia going back to 1917.

Long answer - If they adhered closely to the UN Declaration of Human Rights in foreign policy, to which they signed up, then there would be far less trouble in the world, which would have made life much better for the USA itself too. They could apply the same at home too - see the grounds for the BLM movement.

Long - because you can examine reams and reams of history texts and documents to see the awful proof of their debacles overseas. Resorting to military means and might so often for example. Might be sobering for a few to realise they have not won a major military conflict since WWII.

In the vacuum left by their regular fiascoes and failures, the EU has shown better leadership to an extent. But lacks equal US economic and military power.

 

[leon]

...the end of life as we currently live it.
China, Russia or the USA - select your preferred life style.

Of course, there is only one choice. The prospect of Chinese/Russian world influence dominating the world is terrifying. But the US is often it's own worst enemy due to its foreign policies being dictated by the interests and financial gains of its capitalist economy and companies.
Thus destroying the faith and hope in democracy and human rights around the world, especially for poor countries struggling under the yoke of authoritarian regimes, and smaller democracies.

 

[scottyturnerscurse]

Rudd, Gillard could have pulled them out.

Howard actually did pull them out in early 2002. Then sent the SF back in 2005 but not in big numbers. It was Rudd who beefed up the forces in 2009/10, during the Obama surge.

 

[AngryAnt]

If not for September 11 the Taliban could've continued living in the Stone Age uninterrupted and nobody would've cared.

And of course they had nothing to do with 9/11. George W couldn't find Afghanistan on a map if he tried.

The great powers have always been interested in Afghanistan though given its geographical significance. Hence you have China and Russia cutting deals with the Taliban right now.

The improved situation for women, minorities and children was about the only good thing to come out of the Iraq/Afghanistan invasions.

 

[22nd Man]

I have never seen a Taliban fighter in anything except street clothes and transported in anything except the back of a ute.
Takes them weeks to take back a whole nation from an army presumably equipped with planes, tanks, artillery.
Something doesn't add up.

 

[MD Jazz]

If not for September 11 the Taliban could've continued living in the Stone Age uninterrupted and nobody would've cared.

Except perhaps the people they forced into the stone-age with them?

 

[MD Jazz]

I have never seen a Taliban fighter in anything except street clothes and transported in anything except the back of a ute.
Takes them weeks to take back a whole nation from an army presumably equipped with planes, tanks, artillery.
Something doesn't add up.

I imagine one side was willing to die for its cause and one wasn’t?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Except perhaps the people they forced into the stone-age with them?

It would've passed the rest of the world by. How many people are making a noise about Yemen? 9/11 brought the world's spotlight on the region.

 

[MD Jazz]

I think Aust has a moral obligation to take many more than the 3000 asylum seekers it is saying it will take from Afghanistan. Many more.

 

[artball]

I think Aust has a moral obligation to take many more than the 3000 asylum seekers it is saying it will take from Afghanistan. Many more.

only 27 people on the australian plane out of Kabul the other day. 27 .....

 

[AngryAnt]

It would've passed the rest of the world by. How many people are making a noise about Yemen? 9/11 brought the world's spotlight on the region.

Yes, because it's the Saudis who are waging war on the rebels in Yemen, and they are a US ally so we don't hear about that much. The Houthis who are fighting the Yemen regime are pretty hardline Islamists too, so if you are a liberal Yemeni who wants to live your life you are pharked either way. Interestingly in the so-called Arab Spring which was a reaction against corruption as much as pro-democracy which was why the Islamists managed to co-opt it pretty successfully.

Of course most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi, including OBL himself. Saudi Arabia is pretty weird though, the resistance to the government are liberals who want the country to open up more and ultra-Islamists who want it to be even more Islamic.

The West (and China and Russia) have always been interested in Afghanistan as the strategic crossroad between the Middle East and Central Asia. Some of us are old enough to remember the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Yeah so basically Afghanistan has been screwed by the West, and Pakistan, and Russia, and now China who might at least invest in civil infrastructure which the West never did. But if you are a woman, a girl or an ethnic minority in Afghanistan now there is not a good future.

 

[BluesBloke]

If Trump was president then this would not have happened. The far left obviously won't like that, nor would the woke c***s, but the fact remains. Trump would not have let this happen. Good luck arguing that, lefty c***s.

 

[scottyturnerscurse]

If Trump was president then this would not have happened. The far left obviously won't like that, nor would the woke c***s, but the fact remains. Trump would not have let this happen. Good luck arguing that, lefty c***s.

It would be exactly the same but would have happened three months earlier.