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911 Truth Movement

Do you think the US government should hold an independent investigation into the events surrounding


  • Total voters
    63
KnightersRevenge said:
I think you are speaking with a certainty that is misplaced, many things "may" have happened but I doubt you know what really did happen even so just on the balance of probabilities the least likely scenario is that it was a secret and advanced plan to pointlessly and spectacularly demolish a building and then pretend you didn't.

how did you come up with the least likely scenario conclusion?

could well be argued that the least likely scenario is that 19 amateur jihad freedom fighters directed by a man in a cave in the mountains of afghanistan or pakistan hijacked 4 planes and flew them like professional fighter jet pilots over the heaviest defended airspace in the world and hit 75% of their targets to cause the biggest terrorist incident in history. This could well be a hollywood script if you didn't know it's supposed to be the official story. you probably rate the flying abilities of jihad freedom fighters and the co-ordination skills of a man in a cave in Afganistan and believe it's quite possible for them to achieve this, but some out there are just a tad sceptical.
 
Harry said:
how did you come up with the least likely scenario conclusion?

could well be argued that the least likely scenario is that 19 amateur jihad freedom fighters directed by a man in a cave in the mountains of afghanistan or pakistan hijacked 4 planes and flew them like professional fighter jet pilots over the heaviest defended airspace in the world and hit 75% of their targets to cause the biggest terrorist incident in history. This could well be a hollywood script if you didn't know it's supposed to be the official story. you probably rate the flying abilities of jihad freedom fighters and the co-ordination skills of a man in a cave in Afganistan and believe it's quite possible for them to achieve this, but some out there are just a tad sceptical.

I'm all for scepticism, just find most conspiracies are implausible. The scenario you posit has a few assumptions built in, like the idea of a well co-ordinated attack and central authority. Could be they got lucky, may have expected one or none of them to get to their target. Not to mention the evidence. There is evidence that one of these scenarios occurred (the identity of the hijackers is known) there is wild speculation and outright fabrication and the support of card carrying numpties for the other. The balance of probably is that most conspiracy theories fail.
 
KnightersRevenge said:
Come now, you can't blame people for being amused by wild conspiracies. While many of these experts may have diplomas or degrees or masters in architecture or engineering, none of them have expertise in the events of Sept 11. No one really understands the forces and chains of events because there is no way to study them. Physicists might understand the forces but they can be certain about the structure, and no one truly knows what damage the planes did, nor what subsequent damage was caused when the towers came down.

They're not wild conspiracies. The way people keep insisting this is classic apologist deflection. All these experts are only saying the official narrative and explanations are questionable and require proper investigation. Explain to me how they are conspiracy theorists, let alone wild conspiracy theorists.

IMO the technical questions, as compelling as I think they are in some cases (such as WTC7), are not the greatest indication that something is beying covered up. Bush and Cheney's actions surrounding the events are far more suspicious and are most demanding of an investigation IMO.
 
Harry said:
how did you come up with the least likely scenario conclusion?

could well be argued that the least likely scenario is that 19 amateur jihad freedom fighters directed by a man in a cave in the mountains of afghanistan or pakistan hijacked 4 planes and flew them like professional fighter jet pilots over the heaviest defended airspace in the world and hit 75% of their targets to cause the biggest terrorist incident in history. This could well be a hollywood script if you didn't know it's supposed to be the official story. you probably rate the flying abilities of jihad freedom fighters and the co-ordination skills of a man in a cave in Afganistan and believe it's quite possible for them to achieve this, but some out there are just a tad sceptical.
and the stories of these "non existent" hijackers from the training facility that taught them? More actors in this elaborate hoax? And the dead passengers? More made up people? Never existed? And grieving families? Actors?

Good grief.
 
tigertim said:
im allowed to laugh at whatever I wish. Just as others may laugh at my non belief of ghosts, Santa Claus, Elvis sighting, 9/11 conspiracies, UFO sightings, alien abductions, moon landing conspiracies, star signs, psychic mediums and other made up fantasies.

Of course you are. Doesn't change the fact that it's arrogant and classic apologist behaviour.
 
tigertim said:
and the stories of these "non existent" hijackers from the training facility that taught them? More actors in this elaborate hoax? And the dead passengers? More made up people? Never existed? And grieving families? Actors?

Good grief.

If a coverup took place then surely it's not hard to comprehend that the people invloved would have no trouble killing the passengers on those flights on top of the other people they killed. The grieving families are real though.
 
Disco08 said:
If a coverup took place then surely it's not hard to comprehend that the people invloved would have no trouble killing the passengers on those flights on top of the other people they killed. The grieving families are real though.

I haven't read all this thread but if you could enlighten me on what the theory is as to why "Bush and Cheney" and other countries governments and the Air Force and whoever else was complicit in this act did perpetrate it?
 
brigadiertiger said:
How many of those buildings also had a very large plane with lots of jet fuel fly into them?

None, obviously. People and computers are able to understand how jet fuel fires behave and what damage a 767 impacting the building would cause though. Many of these experts also question the official explanation. If the collapses occured in ways that were obviously predictable no one would be asking questions. Well, maybe extreme conspiracy theorists but certainly not large groups of experts with no alterior motive and nothing to gain.
 
Disco08 said:
Of course you are. Doesn't change the fact that it's arrogant and classic apologist behaviour.
Thanks and similarly doesn't change the fact that people proposing that this act was perpetrated by the US government on its own people is classic psychologically imbalanced behaviour.
 
KnightersRevenge said:
I think you are speaking with a certainty that is misplaced, many things "may" have happened but I doubt you know what really did happen even so just on the balance of probabilities the least likely scenario is that it was a secret and advanced plan to pointlessly and spectacularly demolish a building and then pretend you didn't.
I will admit the 'certainly' was too strong a word, however,if you are talking 'least likely scenarios', there are many cases where all the planning with controlled demolition goes wrong and a building doesn't fall as intended. It would have to be a fairly amazing stroke of luck for an building with damage on one side to fall as perfectly as this one did.
 
Oh oh! Another hoax!

http://www.news.com.au/world/sandy-hook-massacre-was-a-government-plot-the-new-truthers-believe/story-fndir2ev-1226556093112
 
tigertim said:
Oh oh! Another hoax!

http://www.news.com.au/world/sandy-hook-massacre-was-a-government-plot-the-new-truthers-believe/story-fndir2ev-1226556093112

Apologist.
 
Baloo said:
Apologist.
True, my apologies.

What is it with US governments that have nothing better to do than kill their own citizens and try and pass them off as terror attacks or crazed gun men?
 
tigertim said:
Oh oh! Another hoax!

http://www.news.com.au/world/sandy-hook-massacre-was-a-government-plot-the-new-truthers-believe/story-fndir2ev-1226556093112

Geez Patsy and Harry will be all over this. Pretty sure there were no windows on the school buildings that I saw in the footage.
 
tigertim said:
I haven't read all this thread but if you could enlighten me on what the theory is as to why "Bush and Cheney" and other countries governments and the Air Force and whoever else was complicit in this act did perpetrate it?

From my personal point of view, the most suspicious uncontested facts/actions are:

Bush was in Florida on 9/11. Four days previous, Jeb his brother and governor of the state enacted executive order 01-261 placing Florida in a state of martial law. I've read debunking efforts of this fact but they don't change the fact that had Bush been caught out (assuming he was comlicit) he would have faced trial by the Florida National Guard and not the usual process.

At the time Bush is told of the attacks he sits in a classroom with 16 children listening to a story, holding his book upside down. He stayed there for over 20 minutes when his constitutional duty was to command the defense of his country. As one of only two people able to authorise the shooting down of a hijacked plane (a law introduced only a month earlier) it was crucial he assume his post immediately.

At the time the attacks Cheney was in the Presidential Emergency Operating Center and was made aware of the plane being flown towards Washington when it was still at least 50 miles away. Eyewitness testimony from the Minister for Transport Norman Minetta states that during updates Cheney was asked "do the orders still stand?".

Bush took 441 days to authorise an investigation into the events of 9/11. He also enacted severe restrictions of the power given to investigators including allocating only $600k to the effort.

Bush refused to authorise an independent investigation.

Bush authorised the removal and destruction of all physical evidence from the twin towers before it could be forensically examined.

Bush and Cheney refused to testify under oath before the commission. They also insisted that they be questioned together when they were specifically asked to interview alone, as is standard procedure. They also refused to allow recording or transcripts of their interviews.

Bush strongly opposed an investigation into the government's reaction to the attacks again in 2009.

Now, I'm not saying by any means that these facts prove anything. I do however think they demand further and proper investigation.

tigertim said:
Thanks and similarly doesn't change the fact that people proposing that this act was perpetrated by the US government on its own people is classic psychologically imbalanced behaviour.

Why? Operation Northwoods was a proposed US government operation to fake terror attacks (using drone aircraft) against its own citizens to justify initiating a war against Cuba. That's fact. If that's a fact why is it such insanityto believe it might enact such a plan in 2001 when many of the facts surrounding the events suggest government complicity?

Are you a psychologist? Psychiatrist? Do you even know what classic psychologically imbalanced behaviour is?
 
tigertim said:
Oh oh! Another hoax!

http://www.news.com.au/world/sandy-hook-massacre-was-a-government-plot-the-new-truthers-believe/story-fndir2ev-1226556093112

Baloo said:
Apologist.

tigertim said:
True, my apologies.

What is it with US governments that have nothing better to do than kill their own citizens and try and pass them off as terror attacks or crazed gun men?

jb03 said:
Geez Patsy and Harry will be all over this. Pretty sure there were no windows on the school buildings that I saw in the footage.

That's some fine apologist backslapping boys. :clap
 
Disco08 said:
holding his book upside down.

Bush never held a book upside down.

The image of Bush holding a book upside down was photoshopped

The photoshopped image didn't take place on 9/11

You'd think a conspiracist would check his facts before asking others to check and prove theirs.
 
Yeah, the fact his book was the right way up changes everything. FWIW, I'm trying to make my point without googlng every detail. I'm happy to be corrected too.

Now, Baloo. Can you please explain to me how doubting the official narrative and supporting the push for a proper investigation makes me a conspiracist.