North Korea test Nuclear Bomb

[Lidsand]

Can't feed their own people, yet are building a nuclear weapon, with really, the only intention, of selling it onto the highest-bidder (al-Qaeda and their fanatical buddies).....yet people still find a way to get stuck into the Yanks.....unbelievable! :

you wanna prove that or you just guessing because that what rogue states do : :

you can be so pathetic sometimes

I didn't know because someone has an opinion of what could happen, should then be labelled "pathetic" because you don't agree....but I'll try and take up your challenge to prove why I think this way about North Korea's nuclear weapons being onsold to terrorist organisations:

Has the North Korean government thought about selling a nuclear weapon?
Again, the answer is yes.
At an April 2003 meeting with James A. Kelly, the U.S. assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific affairs, a North Korean Foreign Ministry official threatened that Pyongyang could "export nuclear weapons." Although famous for bluff and bluster, North Korea also has a well-earned reputation as "Missiles-R-Us."
Over the past decade, it has sold and delivered missiles to Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Egypt, Syria and Yemen.
Moreover, despite the American-organized Proliferation Security Initiative that seeks to prevent North Korean exports, it is continuing to sell and deliver missiles to dangerous customers. Late last year, Pyongyang reportedly delivered 18 missiles to Iran. As a criminal state whose two other cash crops are illegal drugs and counterfeit $100 bills, North Korea's government knows how to operate black markets.

http://bcsia.ksg.harvard.edu/publication.cfm?program=CORE&ctype=article&item_id=1525

I stand by my opinion.....whether you think its pathetic or not.

what do you think of the americans for selling weapons to iran ?

 

[Rayzorwire]

The US can't complain about non-nuclear nations wanting to acquire nuclear status - their own past behaviour confirms it's the way to be left alone or to become a trusted US ally.

Before you have nuclear capacity you are pushed around with impunity...once you do have nuclear capacity, you're magically transformed into a nation that has open slather to do whatever it likes.

Pakistan being the most blatant example. Still helping al-Queda, still harbouring 'terrorists', still a hotbed of anti-US radicalism, still harbouring and protecting the man responsible for most global nuclear technology getting into to 'wrong' hands, but magically becomes a US ally regardless.

Saudi Arabia has the same status through its oil reserves.

If you're capable of firing back, hurting or helping America, the same 'ideals' they apply to nations which don't fall into the aforementioned categories magically disappear.

That's the lesson Iran and NK have learned...the US only has itself to blame.

 

[Anduril]

Sky news are reporting that North Korea have conducted a second test.

 

[Ready]

eating bark off a tree is arguably better than stealing and killing for money to buy drugs

its a purer form of poverty

I struggle to fathom the implication of these statements. Basically you're saying that dying of starvation is offset by having some sort of "moral purity" which makes it acceptable. Maybe this is something you once told Karen Carpenter.

 

[Rosy]

Yup!
But lets get all worked up over the new bogey (NK) man and divert attention from it.
As someone who grew up when there was  the very possible danger of a nuclear war I can''t get all fired up about  North Korea I'm afraid.

I find it extremely concerning.  Not so much thinking about nuclear war even but  the ramifications of a test gone wrong.  Scarey stuff that Nth Korea are willing to break convention to hold the tests.  I hope our government are very careful who they sell our uranium to.

 

[Legends of 2017]

Yup!
But lets get all worked up over the new bogey (NK) man and divert attention from it.
As someone who grew up when there was  the very possible danger of a nuclear war I can''t get all fired up about  North Korea I'm afraid.

I find it extremely concerning.  Not so much thinking about nuclear war even but  the ramifications of a test gone wrong.  Scarey stuff that Nth Korea are willing to break convention to hold the tests.  I hope our government are very careful who they sell our uranium to.

Exactly Rosy. The Nth Koreans recently tested a long range missile which either blew up on take off or went off course and blew up, I can't remember which. Who knows what they think, being so secretive and paranoid, especially now that their biggest ally and 'friend', China, condemning the test.

 

[Lidsand]

eating bark off a tree is arguably better than stealing and killing for money to buy drugs

its a purer form of poverty

I struggle to fathom the implication of these statements. Basically you're saying that dying of starvation is offset by having some sort of "moral purity" which makes it acceptable. Maybe this is something you once told Karen Carpenter.

of course its not acceptable, but neither are crack babies, theft, prostitution, drug use etc etc

 

[Liverpool]

eating bark off a tree is arguably better than stealing and killing for money to buy drugs

its a purer form of poverty

I struggle to fathom the implication of these statements. Basically you're saying that dying of starvation is offset by having some sort of "moral purity" which makes it acceptable. Maybe this is something you once told Karen Carpenter.

of course its not acceptable, but neither are crack babies, theft, prostitution, drug use etc etc

But the Americans aren't using their own money to make arms, while relying on handouts and charity from the rest of the world, to feed their starving civilians.
Thats the difference.
The United States is the leading donor of food to North Korea, which cannot feed its 22 million people.
Since 1995, the United States has provided more than $500 million in food and other commodities to North Korea—up to 350,000 metric tons of food each year.
Now, how much aid does the rest of the world give the Americans?

 

[Lidsand]

eating bark off a tree is arguably better than stealing and killing for money to buy drugs

its a purer form of poverty

I struggle to fathom the implication of these statements. Basically you're saying that dying of starvation is offset by having some sort of "moral purity" which makes it acceptable. Maybe this is something you once told Karen Carpenter.

of course its not acceptable, but neither are crack babies, theft, prostitution, drug use etc etc

But the Americans aren't using their own money to make arms, while relying on handouts and charity from the rest of the world, to feed their starving civilians.
Thats the difference.

no but they spend billions and billions every year on their military while its residents dont have adequate health and education systems available to them.

both US and nth korea are in contempt of their residents

btw you didn't answer my question about the US selling weapons to iran while at the same time advising and assisting iraq

 

[Liverpool]

eating bark off a tree is arguably better than stealing and killing for money to buy drugs

its a purer form of poverty

I struggle to fathom the implication of these statements. Basically you're saying that dying of starvation is offset by having some sort of "moral purity" which makes it acceptable. Maybe this is something you once told Karen Carpenter.

of course its not acceptable, but neither are crack babies, theft, prostitution, drug use etc etc

But the Americans aren't using their own money to make arms, while relying on handouts and charity from the rest of the world, to feed their starving civilians.
Thats the difference.

no but they spend billions and billions every year on their military while its residents dont have adequate health and education systems available to them.

both US and nth korea are in contempt of their residents

btw you didn't answer my question about the US selling weapons to iran while at the same time advising and assisting iraq

Yes, they both spend billions on their military each year.
I agree with you there.
However, I wouldn't compare the health/education systems in North Korea and the USA for a start.....and secondly, North Korea, whilst spending billions of dollars on their military are receiving handouts and charity from countries like the Americans.
How much charity do America receive from elsewhere to feed their citizens?

On your weapons to Iran question....yes, America has sold weapons to Iran in the past.
And North Korea have sold weapons to Iran as well.
No problem there, its called 'free enterprise'.

However, I think nuclear weapons are a different story...not even the Americans or Russians have traded nuclear weapons systems to allies, unless they have a stable government.
I wouldn't call the Iranian Government stable...and I wouldn't call their Prime Minister stable (especially mentally) either... :-X...thats just my opinion though.

 

[Lidsand]

eating bark off a tree is arguably better than stealing and killing for money to buy drugs

its a purer form of poverty

I struggle to fathom the implication of these statements. Basically you're saying that dying of starvation is offset by having some sort of "moral purity" which makes it acceptable. Maybe this is something you once told Karen Carpenter.

of course its not acceptable, but neither are crack babies, theft, prostitution, drug use etc etc

But the Americans aren't using their own money to make arms, while relying on handouts and charity from the rest of the world, to feed their starving civilians.
Thats the difference.

no but they spend billions and billions every year on their military while its residents dont have adequate health and education systems available to them.

both US and nth korea are in contempt of their residents

btw you didn't answer my question about the US selling weapons to iran while at the same time advising and assisting iraq

Yes, they both spend billions on their military each year.
I agree with you there.
However, I wouldn't compare the health/education systems in North Korea and the USA for a start.....and secondly, North Korea, whilst spending billions of dollars on their military are receiving handouts and charity from countries like the Americans.
How much charity do America receive from elsewhere to feed their citizens?

On your weapons to Iran question....yes, America has sold weapons to Iran in the past.
And North Korea have sold weapons to Iran as well.
No problem there, its called 'free enterprise'.

However, I think nuclear weapons are a different story...not even the Americans or Russians have traded nuclear weapons systems to allies, unless they have a stable government.
I wouldn't call the Iranian Government stable...and I wouldn't call their Prime Minister stable (especially mentally) either... :-X...thats just my opinion though.

i was not comparing the health and education systems of the 2 countries just pointing out that both countries spend billions of dollars of their militaries while ignoring their demostic responsibilities.

interesting point you make on free enterprise.

where do you draw the line between free enterprise and something else?

what do you call a stable government?

 

[Liverpool]

i was not comparing the health and education systems of the 2 countries just pointing out that both countries spend billions of dollars of their militaries while ignoring their demostic responsibilities.
interesting point you make on free enterprise.
where do you draw the line between free enterprise and something else?
what do you call a stable government?

Thats fine LidsBling, thats your opinion.
And lets say for arguments sake, that both North Korea and the Yanks do ignore their domestic responsibilities, as you think.
The difference is, it is the Yanks decision, and they deal with it themselves. Ehat country provides charity to feed, clothe, etc their population......whereas, North Korea choose to spend money on their military, BUT accept handouts and charities from other countries (including the USA), to feed their population.
This is the major difference between the two nations.

I don't think there is any line that can be drawn, but a Government who onsells nuclear weapons or technology to another country, has to be held partly responsible for what they do with it.
North Korea is infamous for being unstable themselves, with threats and paranoia, as well as trading in illegal products.
It was only a couple of years ago (and recently on TV...last week I think?) about the drug-smuggling off the coast of Victoria:

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2004/s1162110.htm

Iran....well, not wanting to go over old ground covered on the Israel/Lebanon thread, I think it's common knowledge what country the Iranian Prime Minister wants to blow off the face of the map.
To me, it isn't a 'stable government' who makes threats like this, and so publicly too.

 

[Lidsand]

i was not comparing the health and education systems of the 2 countries just pointing out that both countries spend billions of dollars of their militaries while ignoring their demostic responsibilities.
interesting point you make on free enterprise.
where do you draw the line between free enterprise and something else?
what do you call a stable government?

Thats fine LidsBling, thats your opinion.
And lets say for arguments sake, that both North Korea and the Yanks do ignore their domestic responsibilities, as you think.
The difference is, it is the Yanks decision, and they deal with it themselves. Ehat country provides charity to feed, clothe, etc their population......whereas, North Korea choose to spend money on their military, BUT accept handouts and charities from other countries (including the USA), to feed their population.
This is the major difference between the two nations.

I don't think there is any line that can be drawn, but a Government who onsells nuclear weapons or technology to another country, has to be held partly responsible for what they do with it.
North Korea is infamous for being unstable themselves, with threats and paranoia, as well as trading in illegal products.
It was only a couple of years ago (and recently on TV...last week I think?) about the drug-smuggling off the coast of Victoria:

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2004/s1162110.htm

Iran....well, not wanting to go over old ground covered on the Israel/Lebanon thread, I think it's common knowledge what country the Iranian Prime Minister wants to blow off the face of the map.
To me, it isn't a 'stable government' who makes threats like this, and so publicly too.

is the guy who sells a gun to someone who uses it for murder responsible for the murder?

the yanks also have a choice in who they give aid too. they have known for 2+ years about nth korea nearing nuclear capability. why has the monetary aid continued for all this time?

iran in your opinion may not be a stable government but here are the facts

- 2005 total gdp $555billion (20th) in the world
- Before the Islamic revolution, Iran had signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and it still retains the legal right to use and research nuclear energy
- Iran was recently elected vice-chair on the UN Disarmament Commission
- Despite the U.S and Iran being at odds with each other, both countries have sent allowed scholars and scientists to visit each other
- Iran is a founding member of the United Nations
- Iran is OPEC's second largest oil producer, as it exports 3.3 million barrels of oil per day
- Iran holds 10% of the world's confirmed oil reserves
- Iran has the world's second largest natural gas reserves
- Iran's major commercial partners are China, France, Germany, Italy, Russia, , Japan and South Korea.

pretty stable i would think

 

[Liverpool]

is the guy who sells a gun to someone who uses it for murder responsible for the murder?

the yanks also have a choice in who they give aid too. they have known for 2+ years about nth korea nearing nuclear capability. why has the monetary aid continued for all this time?

iran in your opinion may not be a stable government but here are the facts

- 2005 total gdp $555billion (20th) in the world
- Before the Islamic revolution, Iran had signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and it still retains the legal right to use and research nuclear energy
- Iran was recently elected vice-chair on the UN Disarmament Commission
- Despite the U.S and Iran being at odds with each other, both countries have sent allowed scholars and scientists to visit each other
- Iran is a founding member of the United Nations
- Iran is OPEC's second largest oil producer, as it exports 3.3 million barrels of oil per day
- Iran holds 10% of the world's confirmed oil reserves
- Iran has the world's second largest natural gas reserves
- Iran's major commercial partners are China, France, Germany, Italy, Russia, , Japan and South Korea.

pretty stable i would think

I think a bloke selling a gun, compared to someone selling a weapon that could destroy the planet, are a little bit different, however.
I've always had the philosophy, that people have to take responsibility for their actions.

If America (and Australia) stopped their aid to North Korea, can you imagine the protests, with people showing placards plastered with a photo of a starving child, and the like?
The public, or should I say, the anti-American anti-Bush/Howard constituents, would use this as the big evil empires denying the poor civilians of North Korea food/medicine, etc.
Its also interesting to note, that UN enforced sanctions will be classed as an act of war by the North Koreans:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20562334-1702,00.html

I wonder if people who were up in arms about the US-led coalition going into Iraq, against the UN, will be as excited, that North Korea is going against the UN as well.

I don't deny that Iran might have a stable economy at home....good on them, I say!
However, I think this gets overriden, by the seemingly personal grudge that the Iranian Prime Minister has on Israel, and his desire to eradicate this nation and its people.
Maybe I was wrong in labelling the government of Iran as unstable....maybe I should just pick out this individual as the unstable one.
The scary thing is, he is the leader.

 

[Lidsand]

is the guy who sells a gun to someone who uses it for murder responsible for the murder?

the yanks also have a choice in who they give aid too. they have known for 2+ years about nth korea nearing nuclear capability. why has the monetary aid continued for all this time?

iran in your opinion may not be a stable government but here are the facts

- 2005 total gdp $555billion (20th) in the world
- Before the Islamic revolution, Iran had signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and it still retains the legal right to use and research nuclear energy
- Iran was recently elected vice-chair on the UN Disarmament Commission
- Despite the U.S and Iran being at odds with each other, both countries have sent allowed scholars and scientists to visit each other
- Iran is a founding member of the United Nations
- Iran is OPEC's second largest oil producer, as it exports 3.3 million barrels of oil per day
- Iran holds 10% of the world's confirmed oil reserves
- Iran has the world's second largest natural gas reserves
- Iran's major commercial partners are China, France, Germany, Italy, Russia, , Japan and South Korea.

pretty stable i would think

I don't deny that Iran might have a stable economy at home....good on them, I say!
However, I think this gets overriden, by the seemingly personal grudge that the Iranian Prime Minister has on Israel, and his desire to eradicate this nation and its people.
Maybe I was wrong in labelling the government of Iran as unstable....maybe I should just pick out this individual as the unstable one.
The scary thing is, he is the leader.

sorry mate you are wrong, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not the leader, just the president. the ayotollah el khomenei is the supreme leader of the islamic republic of iran.

the supreme leader is commander in chief of the armed forces, controls the military intelligence and security operations and has sole power to declare war. only him.

 

[nitrotiger]

Whats this Yow chi Kung Fui Fat Full of Dim Sim and Sushi eating Despot Chopstick waving tryhard up to now?

Gonna start chuckin penny bungers at us eh?Or Nuclear Contaminated Rice Balls?

Some-one should pay an insider 1 million bucks to kill him and then another million on completion of the task.......

 

[Lidsand]

Whats this Yow chi Kung Fui Fat Full of Dim Sim and Sushi eating Despot Chopstick waving tryhard up to now?

Gonna start chuckin penny bungers at us eh?Or Nuclear Contaminated Rice Balls?

Some-one should pay an insider 1 million bucks to kill him and then another million on completion of the task.......

the only thing i could decipher from your ramblings is a dislike for asians and that someone should be sent to kill the nth korean leader and then paid 2 million for doing it. is that right?

 

[poppa x]

This quote from razorwire

Pakistan being the most blatant example. Still helping al-Queda, still harbouring 'terrorists', still a hotbed of anti-US radicalism, still harbouring and protecting the man responsible for most global nuclear technology getting into to 'wrong' hands, but magically becomes a US ally regardless.

I'm prepared to support you on Gumpus but this quote is plain wrong.
The President of Pakistan is arguably the most gutsy world leader in the fight against terrorism.  The fight's in is back yard and he actively supports the USA.  Sure he has dissidents in his Government and Military but his position is clear.  He supports Bush. The man is true hero.

 

[nitrotiger]

Whats this Yow chi Kung Fui Fat Full of Dim Sim and Sushi eating Despot Chopstick waving tryhard up to now?

Gonna start chuckin penny bungers at us eh?Or Nuclear Contaminated Rice Balls?

Some-one should pay an insider 1 million bucks to kill him and then another million on completion of the task.......

the only thing i could decipher from your ramblings is a dislike for asians and  that someone should be sent to kill the nth korean leader and then paid 2 million for doing it. is that right?

No.Im not racist.......the way things are goin though im gettin a bit jack of multiculturism.....cause people are comin into the country and trying to tell us aussies the way it should be.....bugger that........
As for Yow Chi Kung Fui Fat Full of Dim Sims and Sushi eating despot Chopstick Waving Tryhard......
I want him gone....hes a threat to the free world and stability and stuff....has been since I was a kid....hes gotta go.......
Take notice of us who ramble.........some of us dont need a doctorate in politics or a degree or a diploma to know how the real world works.....youre treading on dangerous waters here ........

 

[Chelsea]

No.Im not racist.......the way things are goin though im gettin a bit jack of multiculturism.....cause people are comin into the country and trying to tell us aussies the way it should be.....bugger that........
As for Yow Chi Kung Fui Fat Full of Dim Sims and Sushi eating despot Chopstick Waving Tryhard......
I want him gone....hes a threat to the free world and stability and stuff....has been since I was a kid....hes gotta go.......
Take notice of us who ramble.........some of us dont need a doctorate in politics or a degree or a diploma to know how the real world works.....youre treading on dangerous waters here ........

Good post Nitro. Couldn't agree with you more. :clap