eight ace said:
Well done Liverpool. Yes I do question Richards' asserted experience. His opening line was "Trust me, I've worked there". Why should I trust that assertion when it can be easily used as a trump to a discussion like this? Like I said, maybe he worked there, maybe he didn't. I have no reason at all to trust that assertion. Also, his post didn't require an answer from me and didn't get one. I'm sure he can speak for himself and doesn't need you to hold his hand. Liverpool, the people's guardian. What a laugh.
Eightace,
This is hypocrisy though.
Why should anyone believe or take any notice of what you say or say you have done?
With this line of thinking, no one can believe any one, on any thread.
You have to take people at face value, unless you know them personally.
I think this is just an excuse, because someone answered you who claimed to have first-hand knowledge, and you had no reply.
eight ace said:
They face a number of barriers to accessing services including distance from services, lack of transport (particularly in remote areas), financial difficulties and proximity of culturally appropriate services.
I don't doubt this Eightace.
Agree with what you posted.
But my point is, if you or I were living on a sheep-station, or a small community somewhere in outback Australia, then we would have the same distance problem, as well as a lack of transport problem. This problem isn’t just exclusive to Aborigines. It’s a problem for anyone who resides in such remote places, regardless of race or religion.
Also, if I felt where I was residing didn’t provide myself, or my family, with important services, such as employment, health, education, welfare, etc…then you would move, wouldn’t you?
eight ace said:
"Health services that are initiated, controlled and operated by the Indigenous community
have the potential to increase the level of access to health services for Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander peoples by providing holistic and culturally appropriate care.
SNIP
Australian Government had made significant progress in
increasing the provision of such services. It found that in areas where these services were
adequately developed, more Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people were having
disease detected and treated as well as taking part in programs to improve health.
Don’t disagree with what you posted.
Good to see that Johnny ‘don’t say sorry’ Howard’s government has been the one to make significant progress in this area.
eight ace said:
"Compared with other Australians, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are disadvantaged with regard to a range of socio-economic indicators, including education, employment, income and housing, and are therefore at greater risk of ill health. Information on these indicators is available from the 2001 Census and was covered in detail in The health and welfare of Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples.
Their education indicators are poor, because they are brought up in an environment where education is deemed as not important.
Many of the parents, who haven’t been educated themselves, show no responsibility towards their children going to school and getting an education, and so the evil circle continues.
Distance has been used as a reason for inhabitants in the very remote regions of obtaining a high-level of education, and this is quite valid for ALL Australians who reside in these areas, however, how can this be used as an excuse for Aboriginal children residing in suburbs of larger communities, such as Redfern in Sydney, for example?
For Aborigines, the opportunity for an education is there, as it is for everyone.
No school has a legislation denying Aborigines the right to attend, and if I'm not wrong, I thought it was compulsory for all children to attend school up to a certain age anyway?
Aboriginal community leaders should be concentrating on encouraging Aboriginal parents the importance of their children getting a good education, as the building block for future employment opportunities, where money earned can be used to provide themselves and their families better housing, and basically, a better lifestyle.
This, I feel, is a major step in breaking the evil circle.
eight ace said:
Socio-economic status alone does not explain the variations in health status that exist between groups in society.
SNIP
A recent qualitative analysis of the health of the Yolgnu people of north-east Arnhem Land extends these hypotheses to the Indigenous population. Trudgen (2000) has identified loss of control among the Yolgnu as leading to hopelessness, the loss of the will to live and, ultimately to high levels of sickness and mortality" (my emphasis)
This is the ‘evil circle’ that I am talking about.
Agree with what you posted.
eight ace said:
There is no doubt that money is being expended on aboriginal health, but questions of access, availability and adequacy of health services for indigenous people clearly still exist. How could this be? Of course, for you it all comes down to straightening up and flying right. You asked me whether aboriginal people should take any responsibility for the way they live. Of course, left-wingers like me could never expect that, could they?
Yes, I stand my by opinion.
eight ace said:
There is no doubt that a change to a culture of alcoholism amongst aboriginal people needs to come from within. But are you seriously trying to suggest that the origins of that culture come only from aboriginal people themselves. What am I asking? Of course you are.
Nice of you to admit that Aborigines have to take some responsibility for their lifestyle.
No, I’ve never suggested that the origins of that culture come only from Aboriginal people themselves….where did I say that?
I’m quite happy to admit that alcohol is something that European settlers have brought to Australia, and that the Aboriginal anatomy is not used to this type of drug.
However, I show Aborigines who use alcohol abuse as an excuse, the same sympathy (or lack of) that I show drug-users, who know that these substances are not good, yet continually try them, get hooked, and then blame everybody else except themselves, for their predicament.
People need to take responsibility for their own actions, end of, regardless of race or religion.
Too many people these days blame the Government, or what happened in their childhood, or the lady down the street at the local milkbar....for decisions THEY made in their life.
eight ace said:
The article attached to that link suggests that the rate of aboriginal imprisonment is 15 times higher than for the general population. Straighten up and fly right indeed.
Yes, it’s very likely that it’s 15 times higher.
I agree with what you posted.
The article points to alcohol and drug abuse, child neglect, poor school performance and unemployment, as reasons why its so high….the evil circle I have spoken about.
With growing-up in an environment such as this, then its quite reasonable to expect Aboriginal imprisonment is much higher than non-Aborigines.
You have kids skipping school, and getting into trouble with the law, at such an early age, mainly due to a lack of supervision, discipline, and care, from their own parents.
Therefore, they only get a very minimal education, not enough to provide them with the knowledge to gain respectable employment, this leads to unemployment, boredom, alcohol/drug abuse, and criminal activity….hence why you have such a high proportion of Aborigines in trouble with the law.
They then have children, and the circle continues.
I totally agree with what the article states, in that unemployment is a major priority for helping Aborigines.
However, I’d take it back one step, and say that education is even more important, as education gives that self-discipline, planning, knowledge, and skills required to make an impression on any employer looking to hire, as well as giving the individual the reasons why education is important, so when they have children, then they will enforce their children to go to school as well.
This is the area the Aboriginal community leaders need to concentrate on, as the Government can provide the opportunities, but I think the Aboriginal people would respect their own community leaders view of why education for children is so important, rather anything that a white Government official states.
I think if Aboriginal tribal leaders concentrated more on important issues such as this, instead of protests in the park and whether the PM says 'sorry' or not, then many problems that Aborigines face, may be improved upon much more significantly.
Straighten up and fly right?
Spot on! :clap
P.S:
eight ace said:
Of course, in Liverpool's world, it is because they are lazy, black criminals - hey Liverpool? No other expanation for aboriginal people's over-representation in crime and the criminal justice system is needed, hey Liverpool?
See how easy it is to put words in people's mouths?
Liverpool, try to cut down on the pained sense of self-righteous indignation - it only makes you sound pathetic.
No need for this type of rubbish mate.
More than happy to debate and discuss the topic at hand, but the only one sounding pathetic with the above comments, is yourself.
...like we're supposed to bow down to your skewed 'facts'.
