What to do about the conspiracy theory problem?

[tigersnake]

Hope you didn't click on this for the answer, I wish I had it, I'm interested in discussion.

I'm not interested in any discussion about the merits of conspiracy theories, this thread proceeds on the basis that they are false and are a societal problem. By way of a comparison, the Dusty thread proceeds on the basis that he is a footballer with 2 arms and 2 legs.

Its a baffling problem. I, and I'm sure most people, have a friend, acquaintances, family members, in-laws, workmates who are conspiracy theorists. (I'm also not interested in stories of people you know, unless it can illuminate causes or solutions). I don't know about you, but in my experience presenting facts and logic is pointless, they ignore it or dismiss it as propaganda.

Thats at a personal level. At a societal level, the stats say 3-15% percent of the population, depending on your definition and where you are. I've never really seen any definitive, clear explanations of what causes it, and definitely no convincing attempts at policy for solving the problem. Facebook apparently delete extreme material, but it has to be reported and who will do that in an echo chamber, and fb make money from it, so I can't see that as a solution. And also it just fuels the whole silencing of truth angle.

It seems to be rearing its head more and more. It used to be mostly harmless, the 911 stuff. Now we have seen an American president elected in part using it as a powerbase, an insurrection in the worlds most powerful nation. An attempted coup in Germany, and now in Australia the shooting of 2 young policemen and a random civilian (there are many others). Is this the beginning of a trend that could grow into something more significant? Or will it continue to throw up isolated incidents of mayhem that we just come to expect? Will it be a passing phase?

I think incidents like these will increase in frequency. Not so sure if they will pose a threat to society, but I'm not ruling it out completely.

 

[Ian4]

a good start would be to do something about sections of the media that enables them. Ie. a Royal Commission into the Murdoch Media

 

[tigerman]

There's big, big money in being a conspiracy theorist.

There's some gullible people out there.

Alex Jones Still Sells Supplements On Amazon Despite Bans From Other Platforms

The conspiracy theorist Alex Jones sells dietary supplements through Amazon despite being banned from other platforms. Amazon receives a cut of the profits.

www.npr.org

 

[gold1]

Interesting topic this.Has there really been a rise in conspiracy theories,or is it that more people are questioning around subjects?And because they dare to question are they being put in the conspiracy theorist basket?

For me I give anyone the right to question so long as that anyone allows me to have my say.

 

[tigersnake]

Interesting topic this.Has there really been a rise in conspiracy theories,or is it that more people are questioning around subjects?And because they dare to question are they being put in the conspiracy theorist basket?

For me I give anyone the right to question so long as that anyone allows me to have my say.

allowing people to have their say isn't the issue here, in fact its part of the problem if your 'say' is based on *smile*, which conspiracy theories are. The issue is people believing and spreading lies.

 

[RoarEmotion]

Social media is the root cause of the change we are seeing. The tactics are the same as what has happened in the past but the reach and power to the attention economy is massive.
would strongly recommend the ‘your undivided attention’ podcast from the creator of the social dilemma video. At its heart governments have to regulate in this space and mandate pro social outcomes or we are fubar. This destroys the business model though. It should almost be like the library in the wa we think about it. We saw what it did in Covid And you can even see 9-11 conspiracy theories with their roots in YouTube. We see what China with Their version of Tik tok to generate positive social outcomes vs the rest of the world Can do. Tough to balance free speech though!

 

[Baloo]

A good article about this very subject

‘Not just at the pointy end’: Calls for renewed focus on conspiracy threats

Whatever the eventual answers found by police unpacking the Wieambilla shooting, experts say already-public aspects point to global trends needing attention.

www.theage.com.au

 

[DavidSSS]

I would say a combination of factors.

Social media has enabled much wider exposure of conspiracy theories. They get a wider audience, they get more adherents who also spread the kookie ideas. Social media has a lot to answer for.

But there is also an issue with the media generally. Some of the extreme positions on issues and the outright lies peddled on places like Fox would have been beyond the pale years ago. The media didn't promote extremists like certain sections of the media do now, at least not to the same extent. Add to this the more mainstream media is also publishing more of this stuff. Now, I reckon this has a couple of causes. there is a drop in standards, partly this comes from the problem that there is so much media now that there is more pressure to get stories out in a hurry, but partly it is just a drop in standards. I suppose the click-bait is also a function of needing the clicks to sell ads when there is a shrinking pool of revenue for media outlets. You also see this in the wrap around ads taking the front pages of newspapers, this would have been an anathema years ago, you simply wouldn't sell your front page, that was for news in a serious newspaper - even The Sun never sold the whole front page when it existed, now The Age does it all the time. There is less fact checking which is disappointing, but there are also a lot less staff putting newspapers, radio and TV current affairs together now. The loss of staff means less people to check stories, to follow up on what is true and also to chase different perspectives.

I can't explain why but I do get the impression there is less critical thinking now. Some of this is deliberate as orthodoxies, such as neo-liberal economics, actively discourage debate. But I do worry that there is so much information thrown at everybody that people barely have time for critical analysis.

It is an interesting question, certainly those of us who remember life before the internet also remember a time when there were less conspiracy theories and just nutty ideas in wide circulation.

We also see people who study this sort of phenomena tell us that logical argument is not the way to counter illogical conspiracy theories, which is problematic as it tells us that evidence-based argument is no longer as powerful as it once was.

DS

 

[Baloo]

Then you have politicians echoing conspiracy theories in the deluded attempt to win more voter. Pauline Hanson for one has claimed Port Aurthur was a false flag more than once. The now compliant media will just report what to cooker politicians sprout rather than hit them back with questions that will help the average conspiracy theory susceptible person realise Hanson is full of crap.

Actually, it's also the media's fault here. They report and sensationalize anything that will generate clicks and views, rather than act like a real fourth estate and hold these people and views to account.

 

[RoarEmotion]

I would say a combination of factors.

Social media has enabled much wider exposure of conspiracy theories. They get a wider audience, they get more adherents who also spread the kookie ideas. Social media has a lot to answer for.

But there is also an issue with the media generally. Some of the extreme positions on issues and the outright lies peddled on places like Fox would have been beyond the pale years ago. The media didn't promote extremists like certain sections of the media do now, at least not to the same extent. Add to this the more mainstream media is also publishing more of this stuff. Now, I reckon this has a couple of causes. there is a drop in standards, partly this comes from the problem that there is so much media now that there is more pressure to get stories out in a hurry, but partly it is just a drop in standards. I suppose the click-bait is also a function of needing the clicks to sell ads when there is a shrinking pool of revenue for media outlets. You also see this in the wrap around ads taking the front pages of newspapers, this would have been an anathema years ago, you simply wouldn't sell your front page, that was for news in a serious newspaper - even The Sun never sold the whole front page when it existed, now The Age does it all the time. There is less fact checking which is disappointing, but there are also a lot less staff putting newspapers, radio and TV current affairs together now. The loss of staff means less people to check stories, to follow up on what is true and also to chase different perspectives.

I can't explain why but I do get the impression there is less critical thinking now. Some of this is deliberate as orthodoxies, such as neo-liberal economics, actively discourage debate. But I do worry that there is so much information thrown at everybody that people barely have time for critical analysis.

It is an interesting question, certainly those of us who remember life before the internet also remember a time when there were less conspiracy theories and just nutty ideas in wide circulation.

We also see people who study this sort of phenomena tell us that logical argument is not the way to counter illogical conspiracy theories, which is problematic as it tells us that evidence-based argument is no longer as powerful as it once was.

DS

In one of the podcasts they explained that news organisations actually generate some (much) of their content based on what is trending in the social media space. Conspiracies trend and are popular and this gets reinforced because it rates/sells. … so the change in the media space is also due to social media and has a willing audience.

it’s the race to the bottom of the brain stem to try and monopolise your attention.

to break someone of this stuff isn’t going to be done with logical argument As you say. scary.

 

[eZyT]

The issue is people believing and spreading lies.

This.

I beleive the current church of conspiracy

Is a result of big business undermining scientific and rationale thought

On climate change.

Its been a concerted, 40 year, campaign

Against science. And truth was collateral.

And its not a genie that can be put back in the bottle.

Society used to largely believe in science,

Now a dangerous proportion of it, beleive in Facebook.

There are already people believing that 'They' staged the execution of police, in order to control the population through gun control and expanded laws.

 

[Scoop]

Depending on the depth of the person obsession, I think some of it is good not too serious discussion JFK, Harold Holt, Aliens etc.

If people are fixated and obsessed on any one theory that impacts their life and ability to function day to day then it's an issue.

And the real problem is that there is an element or shred of truth in every conspiracy and that's what people cling too. People like that scumbag Alex Jones then take anything multiple it out and use it as a platform to sell products. The Sandy Hook stuff is some of the most vile and evil stuff I've ever seen perpetrated on innocent people.

 

[tommystigers]

The rise of intricate handheld smart technology - oh the irony - and the myriad applications that people scroll through 10 seconds at a time in a never ending lust for escape from the mundanity of their life. Unqualified agenda driven influencers spruiking random fiction as truth on any subject, idea, or philosophy. Click bait news and opinion - veracity a tertiary consideration, if that. Give me a sensation, a sound bite, a viral video that will fill a news cycle. Joseph Goebbels accredited personalities and journalists decrying any opposing voice. And a demographic that feels alienated, oppressed, ignored, threatened, superior.

It’s extremely complex. But far too many have become too lazy to apply any level of considered thought or application for education on any given topic and are now easily accessible to shonks and charlatans. If Donald Trump says it’s so who am I to question?

There is no way this can ever be rectified. That Alex Jones was in court defending a complete nonsensical falsehood illustrates the level of dumb humanity has attained.

That a human mind can achieve the sublime yet settles for slops is a remarkable accomplishment. It brings to my mind the quote: “Ooo, Dennis, there’s some lovely filth down here! “

 

[RoarEmotion]

Quite a bunch of erudite Punt Road Enders. Years of misery heaped on us made us sceptical of any Hail Mary saviour or conspiracy. But in Dusty we trust. If he starts a conspiracy I reckon we would willingly follow him over the cliff.

 

[eZyT]

Quite a bunch of erudite Punt Road Enders. Years of misery heaped on us made us sceptical of any Hail Mary saviour or conspiracy. But in Dusty we trust. If he starts a conspiracy I reckon we would willingly follow him over the cliff.

Dusty was certainly sent by god to smite evil geelong *smile* who tried to construct a narrow oval to take over the world

 

[IanG]

The QLD shooting appears to be a very sad story on how religion *smile* people up as well as social media. Its apparently not ok to have multiple sex partners but its ok to shoot innocents in cold blood:

God and guns: the strict religious upbringing of the Wieambilla shooters

Self-described ‘free evangelical’ Ronald Train, who created his own church based on literal reading of scripture, says sons ‘lost their way’ before Queensland shooting

www.theguardian.com

 

[eZyT]

And the real problem is that there is an element or shred of truth in every conspiracy and that's what people cling too.

Like you mean, a 10m stretch of the nullabor IS flat?

Or vaccines are administered by a person who ate a couple of very small chips?

Or neil armstrong once visited disneyland?

Pretty small shreds scoop

Mild conspiracy is often part or whole true - Fifa take bribes, Morrison would love a nonsecular state. Big fossil fuel lobby govt and media to deny climate change.

But the Qanon flat earth false flag stuff is pure delusion utterly devoid of truth.

Anyway, swerving into dangerous territory - a kind of dog whistle for the loons.

Like snake outlined at the outset

 

[eZyT]

The QLD shooting appears to be a very sad story on how religion *smile* people up as well as social media. Its apparently not ok to have multiple sex partners but its ok to shoot innocents in cold blood:

God and guns: the strict religious upbringing of the Wieambilla shooters

Self-described ‘free evangelical’ Ronald Train, who created his own church based on literal reading of scripture, says sons ‘lost their way’ before Queensland shooting

www.theguardian.com

Toowoomba throws up way more than its fair share of nutjobs.

Queenslanders at altitude

 

[eZyT]

Another factor i think is,

The human mind is wired to find patterns,

Even where there are none.

The world is more complex and unpredictible than anytime in history.

And a conspiracy is a pattern,

That makes sense (sic) where there is none.

Some peoples minds are desperate and working overtime,

And facebook is petrol on a burning man

Come to think of it,

Conspiratorial, fixated, thought may be akin to a reverse color blindness. You know when the numbers are concealed in a heap of colored dots and you can either see them or you cant?

Maybe truth is invisible to people with what ill call 'facebook psychosis'?

This leads me to another point

Why for 2000 years have mentally ill people thought they were jesus christ? (Do they think they are other prophets in other cultures?)

Does the ill mind fixate on the topic of the day?

100 years ago, religion was pretty much the only conspiracy to fixate on, in an increasingly complex world, theres dozens to choose from.

 

[tigersnake]

There is no way this can ever be rectified. That Alex Jones was in court defending a complete nonsensical falsehood illustrates the level of dumb humanity has attained.

Thats a very interesting one. I'd say the opposite. The fact Alex Jones was challenged and held to account for his lies, which is very rare and proved difficult to do, is a landmark moment and proves this can be rectified. Its a positive. It was amazing to watch him go to extraordinary lengths, like Trump, to avoid being held to account in court of law. But despite the tantrums, the stalling, the faking of illness etc, the institution worked and held to account he was.