Value of tough nuts | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Value of tough nuts

G

GoodOne

Tiger Legend
Apr 2, 2004
14,210
1
Just wondering what the value of tough nuts at a club are and where the toughness should be directed. We have talked constantly about the need for the Tigers to toughen up. And granted it is an area that we are weak in. For this reason I know some have supported the addition of Hislop and King to the Tiger lineup. Does this help us. Does their toughness make up for other discrepanices.

I noticed looking at statistics on the weekend that King's a nd Hislop's combined contested possessions was ZERO. Is this possible. Could we safely assume that it makes sense that someone who is tough and eyes for the ball and ball only would manage some contested ball? Or is it the body on body, rough-em up tactics that makes the opposition think twice about going for the ball? Would we lost by 150 points instead of just 90 points if it wasnt for this toughness?

King and Hislop had 9 free kicks against between them. 3 tackles between them. They were both reported and suspended. Are we focusing on the wrong sort of toughness? Shouldn't we be looking for Cooney types who are tough at the ball, which flows on to a toughness at the man?

I think there a few rhetroical questions in there but I just question the need for this focus on toughness when it appears to be the wrong sort of toughness we are introducing. Are the Tiger selectors that ill-informed?
 
Not talking about overall club/team requirements for success but just to do with toughness I think you need a few aspects of it, in the followiong order, but premiership sides have big ticks on each one.

Most important to least is;

1) Toughness at the ball
2) Love of a contest and challenge by your opponent/opposition
3) Courage
4) Intimidation/Mongrel

That said, in this day and age of football people who turn the ball over and make bad decisions can really crucify you so there is a real need to balance the above with skill/footy nouse/decision making.

Like most things in life, it's all about balance.
 
I was thinking on the painful train trip home on Sat, how good it would be for us to develop a Campbell Brown, Selwood or Rooke. They all tick at least three of these boxes.

And they have some skill.

Perhaps McGuane, Jackson & Hislop are our most likely candidates for this type of role - none of them has AFL-level skills.

I think Nahas comes close today.

We will need to do a lot of work in this area over summer. Improve Foley's skills. Improve Cotch's body. Make sure Mc/Jacko/Sloppy ave a footy in their hands for the whole of summer.
 
As I've said before tough nuts like King and Hislop are useless when they don't have any skills or talent. Coughlan, Tuck, White, could go on. This myth about a bad culture at the Tigers and being weak is BS. Put a bunch of stars into this team and people would say...what bad culture? We simply just lack talent to the bone.
 
Toughnuts like hardwick, mathews, soloman useful
Tough Titties like King useless

undecided on Hislop yet
 
The Hawthorn forward line during the 80's sure walked taller when Dermie was out there.

KB sure lasted a long time in the game when he had protection from the Richmond hard nuts of that era.

Sheeds was quite vocal in his support of Dean Wallis during the early 90's.

Even Captain Blood remembered the Richmond hard nuts of his time making sure he got a clear run at the football in his first game.

The current Geelong midfield are experts at blocking for eachother and putting their body on the line when it's their turn.

The value of tough nuts can never be under-estimated - it allows the highly skilled players to strut their stuff.
 
These guys arent tough. For me when i think of tough footballers i always think of that lions outfit 2001-2004. Voss, Leppitch, Lynch, Scotts, Johnson, Michael, Brown, Pike etc. These guys were genuinely tough. But they werent just tough - they were good footy players too. They hit contests hard...every single time...they chased, tackled, harrassed and bullied their opponents. Their intimidation factor through those yrs was incredible.

Hit the body hard and the mind will follow...
 
tha8ball said:
These guys arent tough. For me when i think of tough footballers i always think of that lions outfit 2001-2004. Voss, Leppitch, Lynch, Scotts, Johnson, Michael, Johnson, Pike etc. These guys were genuinely tough. But they werent just tough - they were good footy players too. They hit contests hard...every single time...they chased, tackled, harrassed and bullied their opponents. Their intimidation factor through those yrs was incredible.
Click to expand...

Says it all for me.
 
maybe they had only 3 tackles cos the pies were scared of them so got rid of the ball b4 they could be tackled.
maybe no pie was willing to contest a ball with either if these 2.
maybe. :)

king certainly put his head over the ball when he new he would be a marked man.

a few people have mentioned the 5 free kicks jake gave a way suggesting ill discipline. i dont think that is warranted. from memory one free kick was in the square to didak in a marking contest. was there but soft. not ill disciplined. another marking contest he jumped early. played it badly but not ill disciplined. another marking contest in our fwd 50 he "threw" cloke out of the way and took the mark. soft free kick. then there was the hit on didak. havent really heard what happened, turned in our favour. and the 5th im not sure of.
he also had 5 clangers. those 5 free kicks against. no disposal clangers.
 
Jukes Extended said:
king and hislop are both blockheads....... duds
Click to expand...

Agreed. They think being tough is punching the opposition in guts or giving them cheapies in the face which is reflective of the lack of tackles, hard ball gets and such on the weekend. They attack the man and not the ball and give away a ton of free kicks.

I would rather have:

a) A tough nut who attacks the ball.
b) A tough nut who also a bit of football skill mixed in would be nice.
 
tha8ball said:
These guys arent tough. For me when i think of tough footballers i always think of that lions outfit 2001-2004. Voss, Leppitch, Lynch, Scotts, Johnson, Michael, Johnson, Pike etc. These guys were genuinely tough. But they werent just tough - they were good footy players too. They hit contests hard...every single time...they chased, tackled, harrassed and bullied their opponents. Their intimidation factor through those yrs was incredible.

Hit the body hard and the mind will follow...
Click to expand...

Great side.

Paul Chapman is one of the best in modern footy.
 
Jason King said:
Martyn, Carey, Pike, Archer, King, Longmire,Allison, Blockhead (name escapes me but he coaches with Longmire and Roos) they were nice and tough!
Click to expand...

Allison????? maybe you meant Stevens.
 
Brodders17 said:
a few people have mentioned the 5 free kicks jake gave a way suggesting ill discipline. i dont think that is warranted. from memory one free kick was in the square to didak in a marking contest. was there but soft. not ill disciplined. another marking contest he jumped early. played it badly but not ill disciplined. another marking contest in our fwd 50 he "threw" cloke out of the way and took the mark. soft free kick. then there was the hit on didak. havent really heard what happened, turned in our favour. and the 5th im not sure of.
he also had 5 clangers. those 5 free kicks against. no disposal clangers.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Pro-Stats had King as having 9 skill errors. King is also in front in average frees against on the Tigers list by a country mile. 19 from 8 games. Even before the weekend's game he was well in front, so is it that he gets picked on by the umpires?
 
GoodOne said:
Interesting. Pro-Stats had King as having 9 skill errors. King is also in front in average frees against on the Tigers list by a country mile. 19 from 8 games. Even before the weekend's game he was well in front, so is it that he gets picked on by the umpires?
Click to expand...

Pretty obvious he gets treated harshly, I mean 4 players in his back should warrant a free right ?
 
so martin pyke was a hard player but had good skills too right. thats why he got cut by two or three teams. they obviously thought he had great footy skills...not.
these days you cant put up with bad skills. as long and thhe tough nuts have reasonably good skills, thats okay. let the skillful players use the ball more often, make way for them to use it, help them out by roughing up the opposition (tough shepherd while they are chasing your skillful player, tag a dominant opponent out and frstrate the hell out of him, etc). if they use the ball fairly well, but intimidate the hell out of the opposion, i reckon they have definate value in a side. this i believe is especially true in the backline. make the fwds have that sense of im going for the mark, where is my opponent, is he gonna come in and smash me in the contest, shees should i sneak a peek and take my eye off the ball...
 
Tough players demand respect from the opposition and look after their teammates....god example was David Cloke. Tough courageous strong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
< We have been labelled as "Gutless" and must respond | expired contracts >
Official PRE merch now on Redbubble!
Top Bottom