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"The ruck is no place for blokes who think they can play." josey
- Thread starter Dyer'ere
- Start date
A ruck can never be good, only adequate. *But what about that champion ruck?* He was only playing on a ruck. He was adequate - his opponent was *smile*'ouse.
There are some tests coming. For big stakes. Suppose Max Gawn gets a hold of Tim English in the GF. That would surely mean that Max Gawn is a champion. Nah. Tim English is *smile*.
Well what about Luke Jackson demoralising Stef Martin? The matchups might largely be the other way around. But Stef Martin is barely a VFL player. It's humiliating to any Melbourne ruck to be on the same park.
We will never see a ruck combo prodigy on the park again like Gawn/Jackson. And soon against Martin/English. The Melbounre champions should kick ten between them.
There are some tests coming. For big stakes. Suppose Max Gawn gets a hold of Tim English in the GF. That would surely mean that Max Gawn is a champion. Nah. Tim English is *smile*.
Well what about Luke Jackson demoralising Stef Martin? The matchups might largely be the other way around. But Stef Martin is barely a VFL player. It's humiliating to any Melbourne ruck to be on the same park.
We will never see a ruck combo prodigy on the park again like Gawn/Jackson. And soon against Martin/English. The Melbounre champions should kick ten between them.
Totally agree.
But on English, he isn't close to a ruck,s *smile*
Oh but he has agility and moves like a midfielder. No he lurks and moves without urgency. Not slow but lacking a desire to get the ball. I,d ruck Grigg before English, centre bounce of the GF.
I think we've managed the right profile of rucks for some time now.
Probably why I'm not fussed with CCj moving on.
Soldo has game by game got better and is the main ruck in the centre that takes on the big guys.
His partner in crime, Nank is the around the ground gem.
From boundary throw ins to dropping back in defence and taking crucial marks to taking shots on goal , Nank is the floater ruck and does it well.
Our recent recruiting structure has been pretty good when it comes to rucks.
Do you need a champion ruck?
For me its a no, they cost too much cap. Give me 2 x honest types that never take a backward step every time over one champion cap killer.
Probably why I'm not fussed with CCj moving on.
Soldo has game by game got better and is the main ruck in the centre that takes on the big guys.
His partner in crime, Nank is the around the ground gem.
From boundary throw ins to dropping back in defence and taking crucial marks to taking shots on goal , Nank is the floater ruck and does it well.
Our recent recruiting structure has been pretty good when it comes to rucks.
Do you need a champion ruck?
For me its a no, they cost too much cap. Give me 2 x honest types that never take a backward step every time over one champion cap killer.
It is an incredible 1-2 punch.
the best established ruckman, and the best young ruckman, in the same side, in form, fit, at the same time.
its like Nank and Soldo on steroids.
Footscray are going to have to be very good to beat them. Tim English would probably need to win the Norm Smith.
Yeah Gawn concentrates too much he’d never be in our best 22
LOL
Yep, Gawn can play footy, as can other great rucks. Nank can play a bit. Even NicNat can rove the ball and kick goals. They are tall gawky doofuses but plenty can play the game.
This might seem a little bit like sour grapes, and no doubt my opinion might be different if we had them, but is the Gawn/Jackson combo worth the salary cap space? Especially when Jackson next comes off contract. I'd rather invest that much money somewhere else.
For what they get paid, I think Nank and Soldo are just fine. Competitive enough to keep the best in the business honest and they allow us to pay the money to others to keep the squad together.
The debate also extends to what you want your rucks to do as a second string. Gawn/Jackson impact as forwards, where as Nank and Sold are very adept at dropping back in to defence and taking marks.
While I know it depends on what your list looks like, the cornerstone of our flags for mine has been our defence. I know that in a lot of sports, the evidence suggests that defence is the key to winning in finals.
For what they get paid, I think Nank and Soldo are just fine. Competitive enough to keep the best in the business honest and they allow us to pay the money to others to keep the squad together.
The debate also extends to what you want your rucks to do as a second string. Gawn/Jackson impact as forwards, where as Nank and Sold are very adept at dropping back in to defence and taking marks.
While I know it depends on what your list looks like, the cornerstone of our flags for mine has been our defence. I know that in a lot of sports, the evidence suggests that defence is the key to winning in finals.
A champion ruck ?
2017 proved you can do without but I don’t believe that is the norm.
Grundy nearly got a flag for the pies, Gawn certainly went a long way to beating the cats in the prelim. but the counter is Nick Nat and Sandilands never getting a flag for their clubs. If Gawn turns out another performance like the last one, he will go close to getting a normie.
Big men win close games in the death and are critical in finals - they can take the down the line grab or that defensive mark late in games - I still believe on balance they are necessary.
Nank and Soldo have the defensive part down pat and can break even in the middle.
I love how Melb have their second ruck colt playing on the wing - it’s a great coaching move and he could be as important as Gawn as ruck/forward.
English might get a bath but the doggies strength in the midfield might stop him being drowned - it’s around the ground that it will get interesting.
What was the question again?
Edit - agree with Streak, defences normally win finals.
2017 proved you can do without but I don’t believe that is the norm.
Grundy nearly got a flag for the pies, Gawn certainly went a long way to beating the cats in the prelim. but the counter is Nick Nat and Sandilands never getting a flag for their clubs. If Gawn turns out another performance like the last one, he will go close to getting a normie.
Big men win close games in the death and are critical in finals - they can take the down the line grab or that defensive mark late in games - I still believe on balance they are necessary.
Nank and Soldo have the defensive part down pat and can break even in the middle.
I love how Melb have their second ruck colt playing on the wing - it’s a great coaching move and he could be as important as Gawn as ruck/forward.
English might get a bath but the doggies strength in the midfield might stop him being drowned - it’s around the ground that it will get interesting.
What was the question again?
Edit - agree with Streak, defences normally win finals.
They might not have him for long West Coast will be looking post Nic Nat and Kennedy now and I reckon he will be at the very top of their list !!
“A good big man will always beat a good small man”
“Big men don’t get smaller as the game goes on”
Classic Dyre’isms. Who am I to argue.
*Full disclosure, I’m 195cm tall and played ruck
“Big men don’t get smaller as the game goes on”
Classic Dyre’isms. Who am I to argue.
*Full disclosure, I’m 195cm tall and played ruck
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Of course I,d have Gawn in our side.Yeah Gawn concentrates too much he’d never be in our best 22
But that isn't the thread.
Its about identifying why a smart ruck is not better than a dumb ruck and why they love being the solo ruck and hate part time ruckmen.
That the best ruck in town struggles to kick straight at goals is a classic example.
And I love Gawn
We naturally want to decide that our choice is the right one. 3 flags out of 4 helps.
Nank Soldo combo is perfect beef.
My take is that with rucks its all about the contest. A good ruck vs good ruck has minor impact to the match. Even a great ruck vs a good ruck is minor. Rucks will nullify and negate each other.
But when a great (or very good) ruck takes hold of an inadequate ruck then it's match turning. And can lead to domination at the centre and around the ground.
Think of the 2015 elimination when Hampson took hold of Maric.
Or Chol against Essendon this year when he dominated the 1st quarter. It opened up the game.
Both examples of hack rucks who had 1 quarter in the sun that was match winning.
But mostly it's a break even contest.
Nank is terrific because he grinds the oppo down until the last quarter when he dominates against a submissive.
Match after match. That's the type of ruck we need, not a Chol-by-nighter
They have met twice this year, Ez. 20ish shots apiece each time. There is not a lot between them in recent meetings.
For most of the year Gawn has been getting a cuddle with Jackson doing a lot of the heavy lifting. Particularly in first halves. Gawn is now running through brick walls and has resumed the #1 workload.
Gawn/Jackson will never get a softer matchup than Martin/English. BTW English has improved this year and again lately. He can now play #2 ruck. It's possible he's the best fwd/ruck in the game. If he gets square in the rucks next week he'll be hailed a champion. But he probably won't do the grunt work. Martin probably will.
Interesting times for ruck fans. I'm expecting the ruck duels to be reasonably close.
If you think you can, or can’t - you’re probably right.
Like other positions on the ground, the ruck is a role for a role player.
Any player who desires being a role player would know he’s not suited to play a starring role. CJ wants to play ruck? Riewoldt wanted to own the forward line so badly that Richo was moved to the wing.
“The ruck is no place for blokes who think they can play”
I interpreted ‘think they can play ruck’ as meaning to have the confidence to bash into other blokes in the ruck.
That I agree with.
Chol doesn’t know if he can play ruck. He’s tentative. So he can’t play ruck.
Nank knows he can play ruck.
Soldo knows he can play ruck.
My interpretation aside, I agree with the meaning of the quote for two reasons:
1. Small sample size. Ruck by it’s nature has the smallest population of talent to fill it.
2. Talent goes where talent is needed. If a ruck can play, he inevitably gets tried up forward or down back. If he’s good, where do you keep him? There’s a reason we didn’t prioritise playing Rance, Riewoldt, or Lynch in the ruck.
Ruck is for role players. You need warriors who know they can bash into other blokes. Players who know they can play ruck.
Sounds good. Who are we to argue? I could be wrong, but I think Trent argued when he became captain.
In the politest way possible, he respected the past, but he was also unapologetic about rejecting old ideas, and made it clear the club needed to detach itself from the past.
Maybe it’s time to update the above saying? How about:
“A love for the contest always beats a love for the leather”
Like other positions on the ground, the ruck is a role for a role player.
Any player who desires being a role player would know he’s not suited to play a starring role. CJ wants to play ruck? Riewoldt wanted to own the forward line so badly that Richo was moved to the wing.
“The ruck is no place for blokes who think they can play”
I interpreted ‘think they can play ruck’ as meaning to have the confidence to bash into other blokes in the ruck.
That I agree with.
Chol doesn’t know if he can play ruck. He’s tentative. So he can’t play ruck.
Nank knows he can play ruck.
Soldo knows he can play ruck.
My interpretation aside, I agree with the meaning of the quote for two reasons:
1. Small sample size. Ruck by it’s nature has the smallest population of talent to fill it.
2. Talent goes where talent is needed. If a ruck can play, he inevitably gets tried up forward or down back. If he’s good, where do you keep him? There’s a reason we didn’t prioritise playing Rance, Riewoldt, or Lynch in the ruck.
Ruck is for role players. You need warriors who know they can bash into other blokes. Players who know they can play ruck.
Sounds good. Who are we to argue? I could be wrong, but I think Trent argued when he became captain.
In the politest way possible, he respected the past, but he was also unapologetic about rejecting old ideas, and made it clear the club needed to detach itself from the past.
Maybe it’s time to update the above saying? How about:
“A love for the contest always beats a love for the leather”
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