The National Broadband Network

[RemoteTiger]

Well haven't we the Telstra Shareholders (both Institutions and Personal alike) been dupped by Messrs Rudd and Conroy?

10 years ago we were enticed to buy Telstra off the Government - great investment we were told - runs the Telephone Lines the Broadband Lines and is going to be the number 1 telecommunications company in Australia for many years to come. Share prices may wave in peaks and troughs but Telstra dividends will always be good...

Now Rudd and Conroy are turning their backs on all the mum and dad investors in Telstra and setting up another Government owned Telecom Australia to roll out a $47billion National Broadband Network. Which once in place will be listed on the stock exchange for us to all invest in again.

*smile*! How dumb do these two morons take us for? Chances are we will lose significantly now that they have not supported the last Telecommunications Company they sold us and they want us to buy another one off them once the NBN is rolled out. Which as sure as there is *smile* in a cat we will lose on again!

Why can't Rudd and Conroy support our investments in Telstra and get them to roll out the NBN - thus helping our personal investments grow and keeping an election promise at the same time.

Further - in a discussion paper Rudd and Conroy want to break Telstra into 2 companies - a wholesale company and a retail company - disregarding the market needs which claims this is what is needed to create true competition (which is highly debateable) history shows us that every Government owned Telecom organisation in the world floated on the stock exchange and then broken into Wholesale and Retail has had its shares more than halved - if you do not believe me have a look at the latest country to do so - New Zealand and analyse what happened to the Telecom New Zealand share price after that.

We have been duped - even if you dislike Telstra the truth is the Government with support of the then opposition (Mr Rudd's ALP) floated Telstra on the Australian Stock Exchange - most people who play/invest in the stockmarket purchased shares - now the Government is firmly *smile* those investors up the arse.

Mr Rudd, your Minister for Telecommunications is making a mess of his portfolio and you are supporting him.......beware the next election because Australia is not only full of mum and dad investors but is also becoming more and more technically aware at the crap you and your minister are spruking...........

Footnote - this is not about whether Telstra is doing the right or wrong thing - this is about the many many Australians who invested in a Government float of its Telecomunications company and who are now being left out to dry......I'm bloody sure if it was in the prospectus that the Government would within a decade be investing in a fully fledged competitor to Telstra that the volume of shares sold at the Telstra float would have been significantly decreased.

 

[Liverpool]

Australians should have thought of this before they voted the Chairman in!

The broadband idea was one of his key selling points prior to the election so its not like this is something new.

He wants to have the power of the telecommunications sector because how easy is it then for him and Comrade Conroy to implement their draconian measures, such as this big brother "filter"...if the Government own the main broadband lines?

Apart from the good points you raise Remote regarding how this will affect Telstra investors....has any costing been done on what Rudd is proposing?
How much is it going to cost you and I per month to use it?
Where is this $40+billion coming from?
By the time it is built, will it be already surpassed by new technologies?

There are so many questions to be answered....but hey, throwing populist things out there to keep the masses happy and the polls in good light is what our Chairman is all about.

As the quote in "Gladiator" says:
"I think he knows what Rome is. Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of Rome is not the marble of the senate, it's the sand of the coliseum. He'll bring them death - and they will love him for it"

 

[Tiger74]

Telstra is a private company - why should the govt support it at all?

Telstra wouldn't be in this position if the idiot running it hadn't waged war with the Howard/Rudd Govts to try and rebuild its monopoly powers

 

[AngryAnt]

Telstra is a private company - why should the govt support it at all?

Telstra wouldn't be in this position if the idiot running it hadn't waged war with the Howard/Rudd Govts to try and rebuild its monopoly powers

And the decisions to privatise Telstra and defer any activity on actually developing a competitive broadband infrastructure (in times of plenty) were made when the Libs were in power.

A tip for mum and dad investors - there is a chance you will lose money. No investment is risk free. Governments cannot guarantee the share market will keep booming - the last year is evidence enough of that.

 

[evo]

It is good that we are going to get a 1st-world standard network out of this but I wonder how many punters are going to be willing/able to afford to plug in.

100 mbs is awesome but if it's going to cost $150-200/month in today's dollars I wonder how many people are going to use it.

 

[Tiger74]

It is good that we are going to get a 1st-world standard network out of this but I wonder how many punters are going to be willing/able to afford to plug in.

100 mbs is awesome but if it's going to cost $150-200/month in today's dollars I wonder how many people are going to use it.

I'm guessing those numbers though are based upon current economics. Right now we have cable, ADSL, wireless, dial up (I know - its still out there), and satellite all competing against each other. A decent fiber optic network will spell the end of ADSL and dial-up, and may bring across some wireless users too (I know a few who are on wireless only because they cannot get any other option at their place).

It will be interesting to see where the real estimates on retail pricing end up. At this stage I'm not paying too much attention to this, simply because this is going where we have never been before, so the models need to be rebuilt.

Personally if pricing is high, I would rather see costs subsidized to promote take-up over stuff like baby bonuses and first home buyer grants. Cheaper and faster net is something vital for business, and it will provide a "real" benefit to the economy (IMO).

 

[evo]

A decent fiber optic network will spell the end of ADSL and dial-up,

Not for a long time. Because there will always be people who don't care so much about speed but are price sensistive.

Most people are happy with 1 or 2 mbs, particularly if only costs the price of slab of vb.

It will be interesting to see where the real estimates on retail pricing end up. At this stage I'm not paying too much attention to this, simply because this is going where we have never been before, so the models need to be rebuilt.

This is another concern. The government has done *smile* all modelling. Which is mighty unusual considering the cost of the thing.

Does it not seem rather rushed and ad hoc to you?

[Cheaper and faster net is something vital for business, and it will provide a "real" benefit to the economy (IMO).

Yes, well I agree in principle, but will the market?

 

[Tiger74]

Not for a long time. Because there will always be people who don't care so much about speed but are price sensistive.

Most people are happy with 1 or 2 mbs, particularly if only costs the price of slab of vb.

This is another concern. The government has done *smile* all modelling. Which is mighty unusual considering the cost of the thing.

Does it not seem rather rushed and ad hoc to you?Yes, well I agree in principle, but will the market?

Personally I would have started the modelling prior to any announcement, but unfortunately economics is only one part of this decision.

In terms of the market, I can tell you from a business perspective many are desperate for decent download speeds. My company (for instance) has been having issues for 4 months now, all about our access to easy and prompt email and net access. Its actually been that bad people are switching to (more expensive) 3G cards while in the office. I see the main push for the new service not being retail consumers (which the media seem obsessed with), but business.

 

[RemoteTiger]

Telstra is a private company - why should the govt support it at all?

Telstra the private company formed as part of a Government sell off - a float on the Australian Stock Exchange. With its biggest asset being the phone and broadband network - this is where we were told in the prospectus that the continued strength of Telstra lay - inferring that the dividends will always be there as Telstra really had no competition. We as investors purchased that network.

NOW IF THE TELSTRA PROSPECTUS said that in 10 years time we the Government will be building a new national broadband network as full competition to the Telstra Copper Wire phone/ADSL network do you think many Australians would have invested in the shares? I certainly don't! The Telstra float would have been an abject failure.

Telstra wouldn't be in this position if the idiot running it hadn't waged war with the Howard/Rudd Govts to try and rebuild its monopoly powers

The idiot running it had for sometime two masters to obey - the Federal Government when they had a majority shareholding and the shareholders.

Once the Federal Goverment lost its majority shareholdng surely the CEO and the Telstra Board of Directors are responsible to all the Shareholders. Australian Company Law states exactly that. Therefore Sol was looking after shareholder investments (and his own) and not looking after Federal Government Policy. This is where the conflict started - and surely being an investor you would want the CEO and the Board to look after your investment - wouldn't you? The Government tried to have its cake and eat it too!

When all said and done I wonder if there is any Australian Company Law that allows for a class action to be taken by Telstra Shareholders against the Government for not advising its full intentions and all possibilities in the prospectus?

 

[Tiger74]

once they became private...THEY ARE PRIVATE

do the CBA deserve special treatment because they were once govt owned? If so, how long?

Investors buy at risk, and the risk of a competiting network is always open in a free market.

As for Sol, his war only started in full once the govt were out of the picture.

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

The way Telstra was originally floated was always going to lead to problems down the track. Sure, the government got huge returns selling the infrastructure and retail arms together, essentially as a monopoly, but the detrimental effect that this has had on the advancement of broadband in this country is plain to see. You could say that the advances we have seen are despite the efforts of Telstra, who in a bid to maximise the profits for its shareholders, have blocked any advancements that might threaten its stranglehold on the industry in this country. The fact that the government at the time didn't forsee this (the cynical might say that they did, however the returns from the float were far greater this way), nor the investors, does not reduce the impact that this is having on our economy at the present and into the future.

As for the costs of accessing the new network, my understanding is that those $200/month figures being bandied about by the opposition are essentially the number of connections/cost. This does not take into account the businesses that will access this network, nor the economics of such a network (as raised by T74), nor the potential 'value-adds' that such a network will provide to the average business or homeowner (many applications that have yet to be dreamed up because they have never been viable without such a network).

 

[Tiger74]

This does not take into account the businesses that will access this network, nor the economics of such a network (as raised by T74), nor the potential 'value-adds' that such a network will provide to the average business or homeowner (many applications that have yet to be dreamed up because they have never been viable without such a network).

Does this mean Homer Simpson finally can download porn 1 million times faster? :hihi

 

[RemoteTiger]

once they became private...THEY ARE PRIVATE

do the CBA deserve special treatment because they were once govt owned? If so, how long?

Investors buy at risk, and the risk of a competiting network is always open in a free market.

As for Sol, his war only started in full once the govt were out of the picture.

I agree - and do not expect special treatment - I am just asking if all was disclosed in the Propectus - if not - surely there is an avenue for some recourse.

If not surely Australians will be very wary of the NBN Company Float when it happens!

In terms of the market, I can tell you from a business perspective many are desperate for decent download speeds. My company (for instance) has been having issues for 4 months now, all about our access to easy and prompt email and net access. Its actually been that bad people are switching to (more expensive) 3G cards while in the office. I see the main push for the new service not being retail consumers (which the media seem obsessed with), but business.

Again I agree - I moved all my employees over to the new 21mbs wireless network cards - bundled everything Office telephones, mobile phones into the one bill and pushed hard in the negotiations to be paying less than I was previously. Speed is fantastic and availablity is everywhere my salespeople go................

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

Does this mean Homer Simpson finally can download porn 1 million times faster? :hihi

One of the many benefits ;D.

 

[AngryAnt]

NOW IF THE TELSTRA PROSPECTUS said that in 10 years time we the Government will be building a new national broadband network as full competition to the Telstra Copper Wire phone/ADSL network do you think many Australians would have invested in the shares? I certainly don't! The Telstra float would have been an abject failure.

Technology doesn't stand still and it was a very good bet that copper wire is not the technology of the future when it comes to data transfer - anyone with any knowledge of the industry knows this. You can't expect any government to protect the interests of shareholders who took a risk buying into a to-be privatised entity that would have to face market forces, competition and technology development.

A Telstra prospectus (or any prospectus) cannot be expected to anticipate government policy decisions down the track. What it should do is to tell you that Telstra executives stay in touch with policy and technology developments, and have a strategic technology plan. Get angry at your board of directors, don't blame the government.

As always, buyer beware.

 

[Liverpool]

Does this mean Homer Simpson finally can download porn 1 million times faster? :hihi

C'mon Tiger74....how can Homer do that without having 'men in black' kick down his front-door for contravening the Chairman's "net nanny" filter system (which will slow down the 'fast speed' of Ruddnet to the same level we have now!)

 

[Tiger74]

C'mon Tiger74....how can Homer do that without having 'men in black' kick down his front-door for contravening the Chairman's "net nanny" filter system (which will slow down the 'fast speed' of Ruddnet to the same level we have now!)

I'll give you a tip Liverpool, by the time the filter is techincally capable of being viable, Liverpool would have one their next championship......and that ain't happening for a very long time ;D