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Stawell Gift controversy

LeeToRainesToRoach

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,548
Melbourne
Don't know much about footrunning but it's not exactly unheard of for runners to tank in order to get a better handicap in a big race. Now a 15yo girl has seemingly got in on the act.

"When she got here, she ran seven metres quicker than in Ararat which is more than most runners improve in a lifetime... It is like, in the horse racing game, getting beaten in a maiden at Pakenham and 12 days later wining the Cox Plate or something. That might be a bit over the top."

- chief steward Brian Marantelli

Stawell Gift 2016: Teenager Talia Martin wins amid controversy

Given there is $40,000 prizemoney involved, and leaving aside the damage done to the time-honoured event's reputation, should this be investigated as a possible crime?
 
Re: Stawell Gift scam

Was she beaten at Packenham though? She did what she had to to win through didn't she. I know nothing about running but I do know it's not uncommon for elite sports people to improve from heats to finals. Is there any onus on a runner to go 100% in all lead up races? I can't imagine a case for legal action considering she was fined but not disqualified. I wonder if she breached any rules or if an exuberant kid just excelled on the big stage.
 
Brian Marantelli is from a bookmaking family (hence the horse racing analogy), he knows something dodgy when he sees it.

I doubt a 15yo would be shrewd enough to orchestrate this on her own. Her trainer/advisors have some explaining to do though.

How would you feel if you were the runner-up?
 
tigertim said:
What handicap did she get LTR?
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13m (max is 14m).

From the organiser's website:

I’ve never run in a professional foot running race – how do I know what handicap I will receive?

Athletes who are new to the sport generally start from the ‘novice’ handicap which is somewhere in the middle of the field. Their handicap is then adjusted as appropriate after the handicapper has seen them compete a few times.
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LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Brian Marantelli is from a bookmaking family (hence the horse racing analogy), he knows something dodgy when he sees it.

.........
How would you feel if you were the runner-up?
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Not a good analogy just the same. As he said that "might" be a bit over the top. I think it's way over the top. Not a relevant example at all really.

I don't know how I'd feel if I was the runner up. Probably over the moon, and extremely stuffed, considering I'm not very competitive and I'm a very slow runner into the bargain.
 
rosy23 said:
Not a good analogy just the same. As he said that "might" be a bit over the top. I think it's way over the top. Not a relevant example at all really.

I don't know how I'd feel if I was the runner up. Probably over the moon, and extremely stuffed, considering I'm not very competitive and I'm a very slow runner into the bargain.
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I think he was suggesting the improvement was over the top, not the analogy.

Given a 4m improvement is officially graded as "extreme", and the girl improved 7m...

Have heard stories from one of the winners in the 1960's. In those days first prize was around 500 pounds; the big money was made from bookmakers, which was seen as a victimless crime. A lot of the things that went on wouldn't fly now, though.

Members of CAS will be nodding their heads knowingly... "That rascally Australian convict stock..."
 
I wouldn't have a clue what happened therefore I see no point in speculating. I couldn't really care less. If there was a breach of rules that indicated cheating there should be a disqualification. If there were no rules breached then good luck to the kid and her team.
 
The improvement came in Saturday's heat, not Monday's final. The Ararat Gift is not as prestigious as the Stawell Gift and probably would not have attracted as high a level of opposition competitors.

Also, no unusual betting was observed.
 
YinnarTiger said:
The improvement came in Saturday's heat, not Monday's final. The Ararat Gift is not as prestigious as the Stawell Gift and probably would not have attracted as high a level of opposition competitors.

Also, no unusual betting was observed.
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Betting's not the be-all and end-all when there's $40K prizemoney. Not sure there are any bookies left who'd set you for that much on a footrace!

The winner ran 13.697 on Saturday and 13.696 in the final. Apparently her previous run in the Ararat Gift heat was a no-penalty event, so her handicap was based on other (slow) runs - unless that was the only disclosed form she had.

I'm sure the details will come out in the end.
 
Maybe just too much embarassment that a 15 yo girl won amongst older women. I saw the race before the Hawks v Cats clash. Well done to Talia. Poor girl was emotional she lost her aunt recently.
 
She had extenuating circumstances when she ran poorly at Ararat. Would seem odd that they would set her handicap solely off the Ararat run. Someone has to win and the winner is (not remarkably) the best handicapped.
 
Betting was 20's into 3's before the Saturday heat, then into odds-on for the final. Probably wouldn't have taken too much to do it, though.

"You cannot run 14.5 consistently all year - not just Ararat - then come to the Stawell Gift and run 13.7 and expect to get away with it and everyone to say that is fine. This has all the hallmarks of a 1960s Stawell Gift sting.

Read the history of the winners of the men's Gift and they are filled with stories of stings. This is what pro running has been about - beating the handicapper. But I think we have progressed past that where that behaviour is OK. The sponsor is paying $40,000 for first prize and it's fantastic because the women's event has been the biggest story for two years now since they lifted the prize money to be on par with the men's, but you cannot have someone come from the clouds and run seven metres quicker than she has been handicapped on."

- David Culbert
 
jb03 said:
She had extenuating circumstances when she ran poorly at Ararat. Would seem odd that they would set her handicap solely off the Ararat run. Someone has to win and the winner is (not remarkably) the best handicapped.
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What I heard this morning as well jb. But ran similar times in three or four other races. Wasn't just Ararat.
 
WesternTiger said:
What I heard this morning as well jb. But ran similar times in three or four other races. Wasn't just Ararat.
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Thanks WT. I suppose if you are ever going to improve dramatically it would be in your teens.
 
I thought the handicapper said it made it would have made mo difference to her handicap if she had run as fast at Aarat, the concern was betting form.
 
Bill James said:
I thought the handicapper said it made it would have made mo difference to her handicap if she had run as fast at Aarat, the concern was betting form.
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I'd read elsewhere that Ararat was a no-penalty event, but Marantelli said if she'd run a fast time there she'd have been eligible for a 1.5m re-handicap (which would've put her out of the placings at Stawell). Ararat received the focus because it was only 12 days prior, but other ordinary performances at Maryborough and Ballarat this year did contribute towards her handicap. So to paraphrase Marantelli, it's like getting beaten in maidens at Pakenham, Tatura and Stony Creek before winning the Cox Plate.

Apparently the connections aren't heavy punters and didn't bet heavily here.

Marantelli: I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to work out what happened.
Interviewer: Is it cheating?
Marantelli: I've got no idea. You'd have to ask her coach.
 
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Happy to be set straight by anyone well versed in the sport who says this is A-OK.
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Dave culbert agrees it's an old fashioned sting. How many others ran dishonestly in the lead up?

In some ways it's a bit like cyclists taking drugs, epo etc and justifying it by saying everyone else is doing it.
 
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