So much for an "even / socialistic" competition!

[tigerjoe]

How the hell can Brisbane, Geelong and Hawthorn win 10 of the last 14 flags?????

Yes it has happened ever since footy began, and,

Yes dynasties exist, good drafting/coaching/management play a major role, but...........

Demetriou and the AfL commission were all for it, and Mclaughlin is too, a competition where the draft, the draw, the salary cap and other restrictions/impositions would even up the AFL to the extent where all teams have a chance to have success.

While jealousy of the Hawks is something that irks me, and they are the best run club without a doubt, the AFL competition is so flawed and skewed to the bigger clubs with all the resources and money, that it is just ridiculous. Their social engineering has completely failed!

And,

Giving Hawthorn "Tasmania" should never have happened, Tassie should have a team....full stop!
Sydney and their "COLA" and other concessions/academies they get are a joke.
West Coke and Freo have ginormous backing in WA, and they will rarely be on the bottom of the ladder for any extended period.
Brisbane were given everything under the sun to get their 3 flags.
GWS and Gold Coast have had way too many concessions/allowances and first round picks, WAY TOO MANY!!!!!!!!

Ultimately decisions that the AFL head honchos have made in the last 2 decades have nearly destroyed the evenness of the AFL competition.
The introduction of the AFL was meant to save the game because the 10 Victorian clubs would not be able to survive.
And while teams like us, Stkilda, the Bulldogs and demons etc can only blame themselves because of bad management, bad recruiting and stuffing things up, the powers that be at the AFL continue to make the wrong decisions with regard to giving every team the chance to taste success.

We may be on our way out of the category I put us in, because of the efforts of us the members and our brains trust, and hopefully we are, but if the competition continues on the track it is on, the poorer clubs will continue to struggle and never taste success ultimately robbing the AFL of any chance to grow, and ultimately be swallowed up by soccer and become the 2nd/3rd sport in Australia.

 

[Rosy]

You've gotta know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away and know when to stay. They've played their cards far better than we have.

 

[jb03]

Bit over the top there Joe. 70's and 80's were dominated by only a few.

Clubs need to stop sooking and strive to be better.

 

[Isotopes]

Sporting comps should be EVEN, no if, buts or whatnots.
The Sydney COLA is the biggest disgrace. By that logic, SA teams should have a lower salary cap.

 

[Tames]

Hats off to the Hawks.

They have not only played great on field, but got it right behind the scenes as well. Their mature age recruiting has been excellent. Picks well spent to keep them at the top.

 

[Rosy]

Sporting comps should be EVEN, no if, buts or whatnots.
The Sydney COLA is the biggest disgrace. By that logic, SA teams should have a lower salary cap.

Agree in regards to Sydney but I can't see how Hawks have any favours over us. They just do it better.

 

[ToraToraTora]

This is what is boils down to.
They know where to run.where to kick it.
How to kick it.
The rest is is all bitching.

 

[zippadeee]

Clubs destroy themselves. The afl plays a roll in bank rolling clubs, but at the end of the day. If you can't recuit and draft talent and develop them you will always be *smile*.
10 years a go we had an oppounity to get it right 5 picks in the top 20
And we stuffed it up good and proper.
Good clubs also attract good players.
It's simple, but we make it hard.

 

[Rowdy]

35 years without a flag, Can blame as many as you like, end of the day RFC hold there destiny in there own hands, always has. Sooking about anything else is just sour grapes.

 

[tigerlove]

While jealousy of the Hawks is something that irks me, and they are the best run club without a doubt, the AFL competition is so flawed and skewed to the bigger clubs with all the resources and money, that it is just ridiculous. Their social engineering has completely failed!

Scratching my head on this one. So Hawks, Geelong and Brisbane ate the bigger clubs with all the resources and money? I'd argue this very strongly. In 2004 Tigers and Hawks were fighting for the prized draft picks both getting priority pcisk. 11 years later Hawks have won 4 premierships. We can see why and the difference wasn't resources and money.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Clubs destroy themselves. The afl plays a roll in bank rolling clubs, but at the end of the day. If you can't recuit and draft talent and develop them you will always be sh!t.
10 years a go we had an oppounity to get it right 5 picks in the top 20
And we stuffed it up good and proper.
Good clubs also attract good players.
It's simple, but we make it hard.

Cut that pretty close to the bone there zippers.
Well managed clubs are always up and around the mark of success. Clubs run by pocket pissers, fools n imbeciles spend decades stumbling around the bottom half of the ladder, bleating n blaming everything n everyone else for their own incompetence.
Being very well managed in all departments won't guarantee you win a flag or two, but it will certainly give you a chance.

 

[23.21.159]

If it's so simple then why have 17 teams who have collectively had 51 chances to win a flag over the last three years come up with zip?
I agree with tigerjoe 100% (except it's 10 of the last 15 flags, not 14). Some of his reasoning might be a but off but I agree with the basic conclusion.

No disrespect to Hawthorn. I take my hat off to the club big-time, although their fans can be extremely ungracious in victory.
The figures don't lie. In the period where the AFL have supposedly TRIED to socialize the competition, it's actually gotten worse. Two three-peats in 15 years as opposed to four in the previous 104.
Whichever way you slice it, their policies of equalization are just not working.

Someone on another thread wrote "it's only a problem because it's not us".
Rubbish.
Richmond winning three premierships in a row would be just as bad for the competition as Hawthorn or anybody else doing so.
I would enjoy and celebrate it, as we all would and should, but that doesn't mean it's good for the competition.

To compare it to the 70s and 80s is interesting.
From 1967 to 1989, flags were only won by Richmond, Carlton, Hawthorn, North Melbourne and Essendon. Then Collingwood, the sleeping-giant at the time broke through.
There is a perception that such a monopoly does not exist any more but I'm not so sure of that.
Aside from the big interstate clubs, the only team to have broken that monopoly is Geelong, who have more or less replaced Richmond in that group.
I'm still not convinced anything has really changed since then.
When St Kilda, the Bulldogs or Melbourne win one then I might be.

The AFL should be more desperate to share the flags around and give ALL footy fans a chance to taste the ultimate glory.

I still think each club should get two picks according to ladder position in the first round.
As it is, even Hawthorn will get pick 18 in the coming draft.

 

[pokey]

There are some things that you can't equalise, including (but not limited to) great coaching, good list management decisions and mental and physical toughness.

Fair play to Hawthorn and it's time we got these things right.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

A well coached, well run club can win two in a row, anymore is close to impossible with true, consistent equalisation measures in place.

The Brisbane and Hawthorn three peats (could well be x4 for Hawthorn unfortunately) have come about through distortions created in equalisation measures, created by AFL meddling. Deliberately in the case of Brisbane, by accident in the case of Hawthorn.

None of Geelong, Collingwood, Sydney, St.Kilda, West Coast (Cousins, Judd era), whom had great teams over several seasons were ever able to achieve it. Geelong came close (having won three in an era) the others, no where near.

 

[leon]

There are some things that you can't equalise, including (but not limited to) great coaching, good list management decisions and mental and physical toughness.

Fair play to Hawthorn and it's time we got these things right.

And no wonder that Dimma's whole success model or template is Hawthorn, so perhaps he is on the right track there. Under Bennie and Peggy's leadership, we have got a lot of things right, especially quality values and fiscal stability, security for now. One key difference I believe between the HFC and us going back to when we were both struggling is that the great former players from their successful era stayed closely involved with the club and served on the board or panels/committees etc. From memory, Brereton and Dunstall were involved with the panel that chose Clarkson for example. Whereas, with us, after the debacle of a player-war with Collingwood, the end of the G Richmond period, we just kept on sacking coaches and indulging in acrimonious in-fighting. Many of our great former players became disaffected, alienated or aggrieved like Bartlett. Sheedy was lost to EFC to create major success there. Balme has never been employed at RFC etc. etc.
You look at us today and there's very few former players (and none who have experienced great success) associated with us. In fact, we've brought in more influence from PA with Hardwick, Chocco, Lade et al than Richmond because we now have had no success for so long to generate input from within.
There was little leadership left from the Wallace era amongst the players; just Newman and Lids whereas Hawks are loaded with on-field leadership. We are still playing catch-up, progressing but the jury is out on whether we are in sight of their level of achievement yet.
But think of how you would look at it from a Dogs or Saints supporter, with the expansion teams just getting their premiership windows open. Essentially Hawks have just been smarter off and on the field than the competition. Their success has been due to their decision-making, not heavily assisted by the AFL like Lions, Swans.

 

[immorta]

Paragraphs my friend, it's a new sensation.

 

[Parrott]

Irrespective of everything below its just boring seeing the same team win. The AFL should fix them up now like they did with Sydney ... If they don't do it now they certainly will if they win a fourth ... It's just not good business for a national competition ...

 

[tigerjoe]

Again I will reiterate the AFLs decision to introduce new teams GCS and GWS have put the rest of the competition behind the 8 ball by diluting the drafts and the whole talent pool so it takes longer for everyone else to catch up to those already at the top!

To those who don't think I'm on the mark, ask yourself how Geelong and Hawthorn have managed to stay on top for so bloody long? It is not just recruiting, coaching etc.
The AFL gifted Geelong Kardinia park home games that was an absolute fortress against the lower clubs and the interstaters, the Hawks 4 games in Tassie easy wins.

And whilst I don't really follow the NRL, why do they not have teams that dominate for extends periods?
I know they used to a few decades ago but not in the modern era.

 

[TOT70]

The draft is not the equalisation mechanism that we think it should be. There are too many variables, not the least of which is that they are trying to draft 18 year olds who, in most cases, are 3 or 4 years away from having an impact. Many outstanding juniors never have an impact at all. Hawthorn have recognised that the draft will only take you so far. Each year they have gone back and traded for the players that they missed the first time around.

Equalisation vs running an efficient club? Go with the efficient club every time.

 

[Dev Tiger]

Yes I agree completley with that TOT70.