Govt Health Care (split from state politics thread)

[Ian4]

front page of todays hun:
'gillard's healthcuts - enough is enough.'

first and foremost, it is my opinion that govt's should never, ever make budget cuts in health and eduaction. so i'm not defending the federal govt... but how biased is this headline? someone may correct me if i'm wrong, but hasn't the state govt made $500 million in health funding cuts, and the federal govt $100 million? so why are they blaming only gillard?

 

[poppa x]

Re: Re: State Government

front page of todays hun:
'gillard's healthcuts - enough is enough.'

first and foremost, it is my opinion that govt's should never, ever make budget cuts in health and eduaction. so i'm not defending the federal govt... but how biased is this headline? someone may correct me if i'm wrong, but hasn't the state govt made $500 million in health funding cuts, and the federal govt $100 million? so why are they blaming only gillard?

Do you seriously want an answer for this question Ian?
Even me - a staunch Lib, knows the Hun is just a bit one sided in their arguments.
As The Age and the ABC is in the other direction.

The only political news I watch/listen to is Foxtel's Polical Agenda program on Channel 601 which gives equal say to all sides of the argument.

 

[Legends of 2017]

Re: Re: State Government

front page of todays hun:
'gillard's healthcuts - enough is enough.'

first and foremost, it is my opinion that govt's should never, ever make budget cuts in health and eduaction. so i'm not defending the federal govt... but how biased is this headline? someone may correct me if i'm wrong, but hasn't the state govt made $500 million in health funding cuts, and the federal govt $100 million? so why are they blaming only gillard?

Was wondering when this would be brought up. I'm not a staunch Lib like Poppa, but do lean more towards them than labor lately, but even I was surprised. I read the article and I didn't see any mention of the STATE government cuts, which I thought was around 600 mill. Even on the news, that part was glossed over and no reporter seemed to have the balls to ask Baillieu or Davis about that. They keep saying 100 mill is a HUGE cut, so what does that make 600 mill?
I have to say, I have kept quiet about the state government (much like they have been ;D ) performance, thought I would give them a chance, but they have been extremely dissapointing to date.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Re: Re: State Government

Was wondering when this would be brought up. I'm not a staunch Lib like Poppa, but do lean more towards them than labor lately, but even I was surprised. I read the article and I didn't see any mention of the STATE government cuts, which I thought was around 600 mill. Even on the news, that part was glossed over and no reporter seemed to have the balls to ask Baillieu or Davis about that. They keep saying 100 mill is a HUGE cut, so what does that make 600 mill?
I have to say, I have kept quiet about the state government (much like they have been ;D ) performance, thought I would give them a chance, but they have been extremely dissapointing to date.

This is a very good point and it is also true that the federal cuts are not real cuts, they are a dial back in the funding. They haven't reduced the amount of funding they have reduced the size of the INCREASE in funding, based on the slowing of population growth. It isn't cut in any real sense. While the state cuts are real.

 

[Willo]

Re: Re: State Government

This is a very good point and it is also true that the federal cuts are not real cuts, they are a dial back in the funding. They haven't reduced the amount of funding they have reduced the size of the INCREASE in funding, based on the slowing of population growth. It isn't cut in any real sense. While the state cuts are real.

That's funny. :hihi

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Re: Re: State Government

That's funny. :hihi

Feel free to elaborate.....

 

[Willo]

Re: Re: State Government

Feel free to elaborate.....

I didn't think I had to, speaks for itself.
Did you read what you wrote? Do you actually believe what you wrote? It could have been straight out of "Yes Minister",

 

[Willo]

Re: Re: State Government

Australian hospital funding cuts cause bed closures
By Will Morrow
24 January 2013
Health care job cuts and hospital bed closures are being unveiled in Australia, as state governments implement the funding cuts announced by the federal Labor government last year.
Prime Minister Julia Gillard last October said her government had “revised” its previous assessment of state health funding requirements, based on new population and costing data. As a result, $403 million of previously allocated funding would not be delivered to the states for the 2012-2013 financial year. In the case of Victoria, this meant a loss of $107 million.
While being presented as accounting corrections, these cutbacks are entirely in line with the Labor government’s so-called healthcare reform program. When the “reform” plan was launched in 2008, Labor claimed that it would lead to better services, greater resources and more beds. In reality, the strategy was aimed at satisfying the demands of the financial elite by driving down public health spending and pushing more people to private providers.
Rather than receiving block grants, hospitals now have their funding determined by the number of procedures they perform, measured against nationally-determined “efficient prices.” Federal grants to the states are also fixed according to “efficient price growth.”
Federal Health Minister Tania Plibersek said the main reason for the recent “revision” was the lowering of the price of health care, as determined by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare. The Gillard government has refused to publish the figures it used to calculate the reduced funding.
The federal cutbacks are being compounded by the Labor government’s austerity program, which is winding back funding to the states, and by a sharp decline in state government tax revenues.
More http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/01/24/heal-j24.html (World Socialist Web Site)




----------------------------------------------------

With a decrease to the states in gst revenue, cuts are being made across the board in Health care. Black holes in Federal revenue, Swan's determination to try to get a budget "surplus", government waste etc all play a part.
For me, I've always been an advocate of the Federal government being wholly responsible for financing Health & Aged care, education and defense nationally. They all play the blame game, but the buck ultimately stops with Canberra.

Once again the Feds (all parties, but particularly the current government) have a history of diverting and wasting Australian taxpayers money. In the $billions. Serve your own citizens first and foremost

 

[MB78]

Re: Re: State Government

I agree with your summery Willo. State Governments need to also be looked at as another waste.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Re: State Government

......
With a decrease to the states in gst revenue, cuts are being made across the board in Health care. Black holes in Federal revenue, Swan's determination to try to get a budget "surplus", government waste etc all play a part.
For me, I've always been an advocate of the Federal government being wholly responsible for financing Health & Aged care, education and defense nationally. They all play the blame game, but the buck ultimately stops with Canberra.
.......

Out of interest how does the health care situation compare to when Labor took over?

 

[Willo]

Re: Re: State Government

Out of interest how does the health care situation compare to when Labor took over?

What "situation"? Federal funding, State funding, the number of patients attended to, waiting lists, waiting times, elective surgery, the number of beds available, staffing numbers?

Funnily enough I don't have the figures at my fingertips
Do you want me to go back 6 or 7 years to look it up for you? It might be quicker to get onto the Fed or State Health departments to access the info you're after.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Re: State Government

The "cuts across the board in health care" that you mentioned. I was just interested to know how health care compared considering the good financial situation it's been claimed the Libs left us in to how it is with Labor who are steering the ship through a global financial crisis. I'm happy to look it up.

I'll split this thread later on to make it a separate health thread seeing the discussion isn't specifically state politics. I reckon health is worthy of a devoted thread.

 

[Willo]

Re: Re: State Government

The "cuts across the board in health care" that you mentioned. I was just interested to know how health care compared considering the good financial situation it's been claimed the Libs left us in to how it is with Labor who are steering the ship through a global financial crisis. I'm happy to look it up.

I'll split this thread later on to make it a separate health thread seeing the discussion isn't specifically state politics. I reckon health is worthy of a devoted thread.

The "cuts across the board in health care" was in reference to that started by Ian4 (reply 32) and the previous posts to mine.
Cuts across the board was by both Fed and State governments. I didn't mention anything about "the good financial situation ...the Libs left us in"
It's getting to be a bit monotonous this Lib this Lib that. Steering the ship through the global crisis etc etc. How long has Labour been in Federal government? Over 5 years, It's not as if they just stepped in and found a big mess.

As I said it's time to stop the blame game. Fed vs State (any State), and start putting the well being of us citizens first and foremost.
Once again I'll say it. The best, easiest and most practical way would be for the Fed's to fund Health care (and Education) for starters. That's the thing with too many layers of government. One hand with-holds then it's blame blame. We know there are problems with Health care (including Aged care in this) find the solution.

Before someone trots out some figures, for or against whatever political party they support or compare it to another country's health system, just answer two simple questions....

1. Do you believe Australians have the best Health care system possible, (including Aged, Preventative, Mental, Dental, Staffing, Emergency & Elective surgery,etc all facets)
2. Could more be done to improve it?

 

[Rosy]

Re: Re: State Government

It's getting to be a bit monotonous this Lib this Lib that. Steering the ship through the global crisis etc etc. How long has Labour been in Federal government? It's not as if they just stepped in and found a big mess.

...........

Before someone trots out some figures, for or against whatever political party they support or compare it to another country's health system, just answer two simple questions....

......

You're a tad touchy there willo. It wasn't a Lib this Lib that comment. I actually indicated I was interested in the situation with BOTH parties. Isn't it reasonable to wonder if we're improving or declining in the health field. There's plenty of criticism but not much facts or substance provided.

To imply trotting out figures based on which political party someone supports is judgemental and condescending. I don't actually support a political party.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Re: State Government

I'm just as happy to know how the health situation has improved or declined in Gillard's era but to me it makes sense to compare what they were left with to what we have now.

 

[Willo]

Re: Re: State Government

You're a tad touchy there willo. It wasn't a Lib this Lib that comment. I actually indicated I was interested in the situation with BOTH parties. Isn't it reasonable to wonder if we're improving or declining in the health field.

Nah, not touchy a all. It's just getting monotonous and boring. You made the comment re the Libs/Labor

I was just interested to know how health care compared considering the good financial situation it's been claimed the Libs left us in to how it is with Labor who are steering the ship through a global financial crisis.

Are you referring to me with the "criticism" comment?

There's plenty of criticism but not much facts or substance provided.

I was answering in reference to this

This is a very good point and it is also true that the federal cuts are not real cuts, they are a dial back in the funding. They haven't reduced the amount of funding they have reduced the size of the INCREASE in funding, based on the slowing of population growth. It isn't cut in any real sense. While the state cuts are real.

To imply trotting out figures based on which political party someone supports is judgemental and condescending.

In your opinion.
I said that to preface my next statement/questions. Otherwise we get the quote, counterquote depending on whichever political party people support. The questions wouldn't probably be answered and would be lost among the political rhetoric. Which often happens.

Here are the questions I asked, if anyone cares to answer

1. Do you believe Australians have the best Health care system possible, (including Aged, Preventative, Mental, Dental, Staffing, Emergency & Elective surgery,etc all facets)
2. Could more be done to improve it?

 

[Willo]

Re: Re: State Government

I'm just as happy to know how the health situation has improved or declined in Gillard's era but to me it makes sense to compare what they were left with to what we have now.

Good question. But regardless, one can now make an improvement, the other can't.
The better question is.. Can Health care be improved?

 

[Rosy]

Re: Re: State Government

Nah, not touchy a all. It's just getting monotonous and boring. You made the comment re the Libs/Labor

Yes indeed I did make the comments about Lib/Labor as you suggest. I didn't make the comment Libs this and Libs that as you previously implied. I clearly wondered about the situation with BOTH parties.

Are you referring to me with the "criticism" comment?

No it was general.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Re: State Government

The better question is.. Can Health care be improved?

I disagree. If I'm about to have the opportunity to vote for a party I'd like to be as informed as possible about how they have performed.

"Can Health care be improved" seems like a rhetorical question to me. I doubt there's any area where a government can't improve our situation.

 

[Willo]

Re: Re: State Government

Yes indeed I did make the comments about Lib/Labor as you suggest. I didn't make the comment Libs this and Libs that as you previously implied. I clearly wondered about the situation with BOTH parties.

Come on Rosy the

I was just interested to know how health care compared considering the good financial situation it's been claimed the Libs left us in to how it is with Labor who are steering the ship through a global financial crisis.

was just a little on the snide side. As I said over 5 years later.