Footy media , love’m or hate’ m ?

[bob]

Scott comes across as bitter and defensive. Dimma actually says not a lot but comes across mostly as calm, rational and secure.

Most times Damien does.
He is the one who pushed our players playing on the edge. Tom Lynch needs to play on the edge, etc.
It has been his narrative - its been picked up and used against him. Damien's frustrations this year have amplified his weakness with media/PR performance.

 

[percyms]

Dimma hardly went down that path although a journo tried to lure him to do so in the presser. He was clearly livid over the 50m penalty decisions which resulted in the 2 vital goals in the half-time grab, which was virtually the game, along with the overturned Bolton goal which hit the padding, and the inconclusive footage (apparently - hard to tell from limited Ch.7 film) of the Vlastuin claimed touched goal.

But a minder would have probably got to Dimma before the post-match presser, to remind him not to dare criticise the umpiring for determining the result, so he was careful. But I wish he never went down the path of admitting poor discipline because that is OTT for what happened IMHO (see my prior post re this) . But the fear of further on-field retribution from the AFL via the umpiring of ensuing final(s) is not to be risked. See what happened to Clarkson's Hawks after his much-publicised criticism. So Dimma knows he must take the cool-aid.

But 'arguably through poor discipline' - you fall so comfortably into the AFL and media narrative per usual, TBR. Robbo and Hutchie would relate well to you I'd say.

But that final pgh is simply breathtaking in your condescending and patronising of all those who fail to conform to your incredibly gullible and naive world-view when it comes to the AFL in general and its umpiring department. (Maradona's infamous hand-of-god WC goal was so right too I suppose?)

How about then the AFL and their precious umpires be accountable for their decisions and rule 'interpretations' along with responsibility for the constant meddling with the rules that render the game so inconsistent in its enforcement? These guys are FT professionals too, aren't they? And very well-paid, especially in the current economy. Why is their a cone of silence? Heavy penalties for any criticism or even questioning by anyone involved in the game? In a supposed democracy where free speech is a central tenet. How about the umpires set a consistent high standard? Coaches, players, club officials are not allowed to avoid media scrutiny.

'Robbo's right in that regard, worrying about umpiring is fan stuff, not the actions of a pro." If you believe that crucial umpiring decisions did NOT have a major influence in both our final and the Pies win, then you are the AFL 'fan'. Your endorsement of that flog Robbo says much about you. If you cannot recognise his abiding jealous resentment of RFC, along with his downright ignorance when it comes to comprehending the game at all, then your awareness is highly questionable e.g. So you actually believe our players are bullies? Cotchin? Bolton? Pickett? Even though we are usually always a shorter/lighter team, we are bullies?

Just tell me again how the Skunks almost always end matches with a significant FF credit; while we get same FA? It's just one of those incidentals, purely random I suppose?

Dont know why you bother reading this blokes comments. I hit the ignore button on "The Big Richo" ages ago and am so much better off without his garbage. I dont really believe he is a real Tiger supporter anyway, hahahahaha

 

[Smoking Aces]

Luke Hodge - the voice of reason.

 

[Baloo]

Problem is, as we have seen on this forum, despite what's plain to see (*smile*, even Cornes who hates Dimma said he agreed), someone can run through a tape of the decisions and argue the umpires were correct all the time.

The rules are too open to interpretation these days. "incorrect disposal" has become a catch-all that can be applied, or not applied, in every situation.

It's why we see rules of the week and focus on different areas from week to week. You can't do that when the rules are more clearcut and there's no interpretation *smile*.

 

[tigermouseau]

Nah - about time Dimma called out the poor umpiring. Clarko would have done it ages ago. We've been too humble and too professional.

Yep I agree- the stats don’t lie. Bottom of free kicks for last 4 years and no one in the media brings it up. Conspiracy theory lives on.

 

[DavidSSS]

Problem is, as we have seen on this forum, despite what's plain to see (*smile*, even Cornes who hates Dimma said he agreed), someone can run through a tape of the decisions and argue the umpires were correct all the time.

The rules are too open to interpretation these days. "incorrect disposal" has become a catch-all that can be applied, or not applied, in every situation.

It's why we see rules of the week and focus on different areas from week to week. You can't do that when the rules are more clearcut and there's no interpretation *smile*.

There have always been interpretations of the rules but the consistency used to be better.

You can also run through a tape and pick massive inconsistencies in every game, by the same umpires, within minutes of each decision.

Part of the problem is that the AFL will present video of an incident individually and argue the case, what they deliberately won't do is put 2 decisions side by side and compare the interpretations. It would be damning.

It isn't the job of the AFL to compare incidents in public (I hope they do in their umpire training), but it is the job of the media to do this.

DS

 

[jb03]

Luke Hodge - the voice of reason.

What did he say Smoken?

 

[waiting]

What did he say Smoken?

JB for you .

Luke Hodge on Whateley (06/10/20)

Four-time premiership player, Luke Hodge joins Gerard.

player.whooshkaa.com

 

[Smoking Aces]

What did he say Smoken?

He speaks from experience. No melodrama like Wheatley or Cornes.

 

[leon]

The only area that I do blame Richmond is Hardwick's media conferences and media answers at times.

Damien's media performance and his shaping of the Richmond narratives have been his weakest areas for me. Even in our good years.

I love Damien for what he has done for Richmond. Yet, he is not a savvy media performer. I can't handle Chris Scott's arrogance - and up to recently, his bullying responses (the journos are frightened of him) - but his ability to respond to all subject matters and help shape the Geelong narrative are exceptional.

Damien's responses regarding Lynch playing on the edge did Tom no favours. The same narrative with the team; the dew at the MCG, the way he used the ill discipline as a blame for the Port loss when again it's the umpiring, the response to Sydney's flooding, the David Schwartz comments - to be honest, it has always been his poorest area. He gets tongue tied. He knows it too. He knows.

I particularly get angry with his PR and media performance because it has been HIS narrative that we are a team with role players that has undersold many of our champion players. Jack Riewoldt, Dylan Grimes, Nick V, Trent Cotchin, Shane Edwards and Prestia have been great players. Stars. Especially Jack. I dont enjoy it when I hear the media talk about them as just good players, playing their role for a team. that's true but they are much more than this. A few media people refer to them as champion players - Terry Wallace, Carey and Matthews on the radio a lot.

Others dont. Damien hasn't helped at times with his language. In trying not to be arrogant and to remain humble (a good trait), he undersells at times and over-emphasises the wrong narratives.

I think you make valid points, Bob.
I just heard before an SEN listener, Tiger man, say we have received 9 x 50m penalties in our last 6 x Qs of football against the Lions. How common, how usual would that be, if correct? Also what does it show us?

But I would like Dimma to really back his players, refer to some of the tactics used against us, especially off the ball, refer to our continuous FA debit, raise some queries about how we are umpired.

All this latest Murdoch media narrative about us being bullies and brutes is a load of tripe, and Dimma or anyone at RFC, have not dealt with appropriately e.g. the biggest recipient of frees in that game was the biggest man on the field - Brisbane's big yOb. Nank was constantly grabbed, grappled with and held but received a net -2 FF.

(Has anyone posted somewhere the pic my son showed me, on his phone, of Nank getting an enormous wedgie from one of their rucks?)

 

[AngryAnt]

Most times Damien does.
He is the one who pushed our players playing on the edge. Tom Lynch needs to play on the edge, etc.
It has been his narrative - its been picked up and used against him. Damien's frustrations this year have amplified his weakness with media/PR performance.

He had one or two moments in a tough year, you are right. I was critical of him at the time, but on the whole he's a master of being genial, avuncular and saying almost nothing.

I honestly think the players are totally uninfluenced by what he says in pressers, they are not the audience. Everything meaningful Dimma has to say to them is behind closed doors. They would get enough instruction from him there and I doubt they even listen to/watch pressers unless they happen to be in the room.

 

[tigertim]

As Voltaire said, 'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.'.

@Mr T. Isn’t in the rules and guidelines that anyone quoting Voltaire on PRE gets an automatic 3 week ban?

 

[bob]

I think you make valid points, Bob.
I just heard before an SEN listener, Tiger man, say we have received 9 x 50m penalties in our last 6 x Qs of football against the Lions. How common, how usual would that be, if correct? Also what does it show us?

But I would like Dimma to really back his players, refer to some of the tactics used against us, especially off the ball, refer to our continuous FA debit, raise some queries about how we are umpired.

All this latest Murdoch media narrative about us being bullies and brutes is a load of tripe, and Dimma or anyone at RFC, have not dealt with appropriately e.g. the biggest recipient of frees in that game was the biggest man on the field - Brisbane's big yOb. Nank was constantly grabbed, grappled with and held but received a net -2 FF.

(Has anyone posted somewhere the pic my son showed me, on his phone, of Nank getting an enormous wedgie from one of their rucks?)

That's my point Leon. Like you say, he is trying to back our players and raise some queries.

When asked about Tom Lynch with that Gold Coast Full Back punch in the guts or head rub to Witherden, he tried to support our player, Tom, with his answer about Tom playing on the edge. Wrong answer from Damien. Not wrong objective.
When asked about our lack of scoring against Sydney and the forwards playing poorly, wrong answer again from Damien. Not wrong objective in trying to support the forwards.

So my point is: he is trying to support our players. He isn't always savvy enough in constructing the best, most nuanced responses. You listen to Ross Lyon (I'm not saying I like him; or listen to Bucks, or Longmire, or Scott x 2), much better media/PR performers. Its not his strength. He knows it too.

Someone also mentioned in a later post, that the players wouldnt care what he says in the press conf.

The press conferences are for members and the public. The journos are hopeless. But Damien's responses at times dont help.

PS. I am not a Trump supporter.

 

[Baloo]

I honestly think the players are totally uninfluenced by what he says in pressers, they are not the audience. Everything meaningful Dimma has to say to them is behind closed doors. They would get enough instruction from him there and I doubt they even listen to/watch pressers unless they happen to be in the room.

Dunno, most ex-coaches who have been asked have said what coaches say in public is first and foremost for the playing group.

 

[bob]

He had one or two moments in a tough year, you are right. I was critical of him at the time, but on the whole he's a master of being genial, avuncular and saying almost nothing.

I honestly think the players are totally uninfluenced by what he says in pressers, they are not the audience. Everything meaningful Dimma has to say to them is behind closed doors. They would get enough instruction from him there and I doubt they even listen to/watch pressers unless they happen to be in the room.

Sorry guys, my last post on this topic. Promise. You are prob all sick of me. But I am a little obsessed with this part of the Richmond story under Damien as I am in PR/media and feel like I have some depth with this subject. Not much else though!!

I agree with you antman. Just a handful of moments in this tough year.

Damien, when in control of himself, manages to stay cool and calm enough to be affable, good-natured and easy going. I admire his warmth and like someone else said, he is not bitter like Scott. Damien's players love him. Good people like Damien. Because Damien is a good person. Yet, he's not a quick thinker on his feet at times, he is not good at "winging it" - and it's in the public domain with interviews and media conferences that this is shown up.

All his intentions are to support the club, the players and the right message - he just cant get the message across well at times. Only the handful of knowledgeable journos/commentators know the truth - because they get it even without Damien's mixed messages. The morons like Whately or Cornes or Tom Morris are just morons or trying to keep their jobs.

A couple of months ago, Caro asked Leigh Matthews on 3AW why Damien Hardwick seems so grumpy and frustrated this year. This was before the groping and Stack/CCJ incidents; it was as part of the conversation around Damien's comments on Sydney's flooding tactics and Longmire's response. Leigh, the master of understatement said:

"he'd be grumpy too if he were Damien. Premiership coach, great club, great teams - premiers in AFL and VFL . Damien would have had a great summer and pre-season, looking forward to another great year with the fantastic squad he has assembled, 100k members, going for a dynasty.. bla bla. But what a lousy situation he finds himself in". Same for all Clubs I know. But is it really?

 

[AngryAnt]

Sorry guys, my last post on this topic. Promise. You are prob all sick of me. But I am a little obsessed with this part of the Richmond story under Damien as I am in PR/media and feel like I have some depth with this subject. Not much else though!!

I agree with you antman. Just a handful of moments in this tough year.

Damien, when in control of himself, manages to stay cool and calm enough to be affable, good-natured and easy going. I admire his warmth and like someone else said, he is not bitter like Scott. Damien's players love him. Good people like Damien. Because Damien is a good person. Yet, he's not a quick thinker on his feet at times, he is not good at "winging it" - and it's in the public domain with interviews and media conferences that this is shown up.

All his intentions are to support the club, the players and the right message - he just cant get the message across well at times. Only the handful of knowledgeable journos/commentators know the truth - because they get it even without Damien's mixed messages. The morons like Whately or Cornes or Tom Morris are just morons or trying to keep their jobs.

A couple of months ago, Caro asked Leigh Matthews on 3AW why Damien Hardwick seems so grumpy and frustrated this year. This was before the groping and Stack/CCJ incidents; it was as part of the conversation around Damien's comments on Sydney's flooding tactics and Longmire's response. Leigh, the master of understatement said:

"he'd be grumpy too if he were Damien. Premiership coach, great club, great teams - premiers in AFL and VFL . Damien would have had a great summer and pre-season, looking forward to another great year with the fantastic squad he has assembled, 100k members, going for a dynasty.. bla bla. But what a lousy situation he finds himself in". Same for all Clubs I know. But is it really?

keep posting Bob, good stuff!

 

[AngryAnt]

Dunno, most ex-coaches who have been asked have said what coaches say in public is first and foremost for the playing group.

Unfortunate for our players since Dimma pretty much says nothing in them.

"Look Geelong are a good side" "We'll back our systems" "Paddy is a great player, we know that"

 

[MD Jazz]

Disagree with most of your stuff on Damien bob. Easily the most polished and relaxed media performer for mine. Speaks common sense 99% of the time. Only the Ox comments were out of character, I'm sure he would take those back if he could. Even then the ox took them well.

Scott's histrionics in the coaches box exclude him from any rational assessment as polished media/PR man IMO. And he's only recently been able to give credit to an opposition team.

They all have their moments, especially after a loss.

If anything as Harry has suggested Dimma has been too easy on the umps. Clarkson would have been all over them if his team was in contention.

 

[Merveille]

I think you make valid points, Bob.
I just heard before an SEN listener, Tiger man, say we have received 9 x 50m penalties in our last 6 x Qs of football against the Lions. How common, how usual would that be, if correct? Also what does it show us?

But I would like Dimma to really back his players, refer to some of the tactics used against us, especially off the ball, refer to our continuous FA debit, raise some queries about how we are umpired.

All this latest Murdoch media narrative about us being bullies and brutes is a load of tripe, and Dimma or anyone at RFC, have not dealt with appropriately e.g. the biggest recipient of frees in that game was the biggest man on the field - Brisbane's big yOb. Nank was constantly grabbed, grappled with and held but received a net -2 FF.

(Has anyone posted somewhere the pic my son showed me, on his phone, of Nank getting an enormous wedgie from one of their rucks?)

No but I have a ripper short video of Chol being blatantly shepherded out of a forward line marking contest, and also being pushed in the back

 

[saigon tiger]

Gee Ollie Wines is a tad confident on Fox tonight reckons Port have got the best squad and set to dominate for next 10 to 15 years with this side . Wow oh wow biggest dynasty ever coming up. 1 game at a time Ollie!