Football Professionalism - NRL v AFL

[Tigers of Old]

This topic was addressed by Gerard Waitley the other night on 360.

Seems to me that the NRL is a little more mature & transparent than the AFL in the way they deal with the futures of coaches and players.
The current AFL environment has created a web of lies and deceipt as players and coaches don't feel comfortable enough to be honest with their contract negotiations for fear of ramifications.

Take Tom Scully for example.
If he's honest about telling Melbourne he is going to GWS then he runs the risk of being played for the year at Casey as they look to offer his position to a young footballer who will be there beyond that year. Alternatively Melbourne lose a player who is clearly part of their best 22 that year who may help them play in the finals & win games.

Then we take Ross Lyon.
Fremantle should have told Harvey that they were opening up his position based on certain criteria and told him to reapply for his job instead of going behind his back.

So many lies, so much deceit. Surely there has to be an easier way??

Alternatively in the NRL, players & coaches openly swap between clubs with barely an eyelid batted..

Seems to me the League has some growing up to do but thought it make for some interesting discussion here.

 

[tigers80]

do we in some perverse way love the cloak and dagger stuff...

now who is that big FISH that GWS still havent announced...lol

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

do we in some perverse way love the cloak and dagger stuff...

Don't think so. It's never been part of our footy's culture for a player to be wearing one club's jumper while everyone knows his future is committed to another.

I find some of the changes that the AFL has brought about, difficult to accept as they spit in the face of the game's traditions.

Would be a little disturbing to me if people meekly accepted gun players changing clubs and taking supporters' emotional investments with them as just "part of the business". May as well be watching shares change hands on the stock market.

 

[Total Tiger]

I think we're witnessing the final transitions of our game to a fully professional sport, which will be complete when free agency comes in. I think it is inevitable that we will head in the NRL direction of players changing teams and being open about it.

 

[graystar1]

I think we're witnessing the final transitions of our game to a fully professional sport, which will be complete when free agency comes in. I think it is inevitable that we will head in the NRL direction of players changing teams and being open about it.

Do you think that will detract from supporters going to games? Kids in particular, have their team heroes...and so do many adults. Sure, they barrack for the team, but at the same time, love their home team stars. If players change teams regularly, then what we are left with is just the team. No adulation of players with kids running around with player numbers on their backs. Hope it does not come to that. It was bad enough when some players here and there changed clubs, but in the main they were few in number, compared to what may happen under free agency. Just have to wait and see I guess.

 

[Phar Ace]

I think we're witnessing the final transitions of our game to a fully professional sport, which will be complete when free agency comes in. I think it is inevitable that we will head in the NRL direction of players changing teams and being open about it.

Oh goody, so we too can go to game between say Carlton and Richmond knowing full well that Lids has already signed with them but have to watch him go through the motions anyway. And how long until some Club exploits that "to make the finals" or "finish 4th".

The NRL look on in awe of the AFL - they are about to move to an NRL commission after years of admiring the AFL's, are regularly considering the Draft we have but I doubt they feel comfortable about how to unscramble their omelette.

NRL more professional? Not likely. They do on occasion do somethings better though.

 

[Sintiger]

Generally the AFL is far more professional than the NRL in most things . I am not an enormous Vlad fan but when you compare him with that clown Gallop it's like chalk and cheese .
I do however wonder what I would do in the circumstances these guys with offers from GWS and the Suns have done . There is so much media scrutiny that they are left with two bad choices . Lie about their intentions or tell the truth and have all the consequences of that within their clubs and in the media .

 

[Total Tiger]

Oh goody, so we too can go to game between say Carlton and Richmond knowing full well that Lids has already signed with them but have to watch him go through the motions anyway. And how long until some Club exploits that "to make the finals" or "finish 4th".

The NRL look on in awe of the AFL - they are about to move to an NRL commission after years of admiring the AFL's, are regularly considering the Draft we have but I doubt they feel comfortable about how to unscramble their omelette.

NRL more professional? Not likely. They do on occasion do somethings better though.

Professional as in the financial side of things not in how they present their competition but we are heading down their path and free agency is a large part of that. I do have a bad feeling that in 10 years time we will be going to a Round 12 Carlton v Richmond game knowing that our star midfielder will be playing for Carlton next year and I hate that this is the direction our game is going in.

 

[Phar Ace]

The proposed AFL free agency pathway is still fairly limited - bit overplayed for mine.

Not really sure how the "clean-up' of NRL will resonate either. They do have a "bring back the biff' mentality that is hard to shake due to the very combative nature of the game. I really think this will be one of the hardest things to manage - they have plenty of money still to throw at that though. While it's one of the better things that Gallop is doing right now, it still remains at odds with the grassroots.

 

[Total Tiger]

The proposed AFL free agency pathway is still fairly limited - bit overplayed for mine.

For how long? How long will it be before the AFLPA uses it in enterprise bargaining? Getting it in was the hard part - tweaking it will be comparatively easy.

 

[gustiger12]

Very good thread Oldie, especially in light og Adolf opening his conceited big trap offering his personal views about Ross Lyon and Freo's integrity. Regardless of what you think of the Lyon/Harvey/Freo deal it's completely inappropriate for CEO of the AFL to be publicly voicing his personal opinion on it, especially given he has overseen the implementation of a system that has resulted in the Scully situation, a situation that completely erodes the notion of Loyalty, from the game. Just plain hypocritical and shows how deluded Adolf has become in believing he's bigger than the game. Keeps giving himself healthy payrises, yet tells the players to pull their heads in when they demand the share of the massive TV rights, but at the same time creates a system where a kid with 31 games under his belt gets paid an alleged 6 mil over 3 years. Football completely gone mad and has the potential to destroy the Fabric of the game IMHO.

 

[BrettC]

I watched the storm play Adam Blair all year with it well known he's off to the West Tigers next year, it's just something NRL fans are used to as it happens at every club each year.

AFL fans are going to have to toughen up a bit as the Tom Scully scenarios are only just beginning with free agency around the corner. We just aren't used to seeing it in the AFL, but the more it happens the more people shrug their shoulders at it, but naturally the first to take that leap will cop the most scrutiny.

 

[Phar Ace]

I watched the storm play Adam Blair all year with it well known he's off to the West Tigers next year, it's just something NRL fans are used to as it happens at every club each year.

AFL fans are going to have to toughen up a bit as the Tom Scully scenarios are only just beginning with free agency around the corner. We just aren't used to seeing it in the AFL, but the more it happens the more people shrug their shoulders at it, but naturally the first to take that leap will cop the most scrutiny.

I listen to the odd game of NRL on ABC as I'm driving hither and yon through Qld, and numerous times the commentary team reflect on it and say it doesn't help their game when players are known to be going mid-season. So many want it fixed, but nothing happens. Don't think it's a 'harden up' issue, I think it is more an integrity issue - there's that popular term again ;D

For example, I wonder how many players on say half the income they are about to get at the next club in 6-8 months time, then play a little cold, even a lot cold. Not for one minute saying they all will, but to vary shades of grey there would be an sub-conscious element at the very least.

Of course it's all defendable - because they are professionalsa and would never let it happen - yeah right!

 

[mld]

The problem the NRL has, is that its players can be signed to play rugby league in England, or rugby across the world, with many of those clubs having a lot more money and no salary cap. Any further restrictions on players moving within the NRL will give the clubs from other leagues/codes even less competition to poach players. Having players negotiating and signing new contracts between NRL clubs throughout the season isn't great, but it is the lesser of two evils.

Of course, this isn't a problem the AFL has, so it can put in place the restrictions on player movement it feels necessary.

 

[Phar Ace]

Of course, this isn't a problem the AFL has, so it can put in place the restrictions on player movement it feels necessary.

Fair point mouldy!

 

[Maneevo]

Gallop sounded like an inbred country yokel when Dr.Turf grilled him on SEN the other day. 'Give it a spell, Mr. Gallop!'

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

There are rules in place to prevent it, specifically Player Rule 4.7:

Clubs shall not enter into any contracts, agreements, arrangements or
understandings with a Player that is included on the List of another Club
before the day after the Pre-Season Draft up until the last Home and Away
Match or Finals Series Match (whichever is the later) that the Club of the
Player(s) concerned competes in.

http://www.aflpa.com.au/images/uploads/AFL_Player_Rules_-_February_2011.pdf

Pretty straightforward I would've thought, yet the rule is paid lip service while they persecute the likes of Heath Shaw and Jake King as though they are international terrorists. It's hypocisies like this which make it difficult for me to take anything the AFL says at face value.

 

[Lennox Street]

There are rules in place to prevent it, specifically Player Rule 4.7:

http://www.aflpa.com.au/images/uploads/AFL_Player_Rules_-_February_2011.pdf

Pretty straightforward I would've thought, yet the rule is paid lip service while they persecute the likes of Heath Shaw and Jake King as though they are international terrorists. It's hypocisies like this which make it difficult for me to take anything the AFL says at face value.

There was as exception to that rule for GC and GWS to talk to players in the last year of their deal. They could speak to players in preseason.

That rule does not preclude a player declaring himself available, does not preclude a player manager circulating the availability, and does not preclude a rival club making an offer. Just no deal can be struck.


People resign and serve out notice periods all the time in all sorts of employment

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

That rule does not preclude a player declaring himself available, does not preclude a player manager circulating the availability, and does not preclude a rival club making an offer.  Just no deal can be struck.

Ward confirmed to his teammates he was going to GWS in the week before the last game. If that doesn't constitute at least an "understanding", I don't know what does. I'm certain he didn't make up his mind before receiving a guarantee re salary.

You can excuse it in the name of "professionalism", or twist it any way you like. Ten years ago it would have been declared blatant poaching, no ifs or buts.

Why would any club play a bloke whose mind is elsewhere and who is probably "saving himself" to avoid getting hurt and jeopardising a lucrative contract? Not that I'd wish it on him, but it would've interesting if Ward did his knee in the last game to see whether he still went to GWS.

Footy's culture is changing for the worse.

 

[Lennox Street]

Ward confirmed to his teammates he was going to GWS in the week before the last game. If that doesn't constitute at least an "understanding", I don't know what does. I'm certain he didn't make up his mind before receiving a guarantee re salary.

You can excuse it in the name of "professionalism", or twist it any way you like. Ten years ago it would have been declared blatant poaching, no ifs or buts.

But 30 years ago it was commonplace for players to change clubs mid-season. Mick Malthouse crossing from St Kilda to Richmond for example.

Why would any club play a bloke whose mind is elsewhere and who is probably "saving himself" to avoid getting hurt and jeopardising a lucrative contract? Not that I'd wish it on him, but it would've interesting if Ward did his knee in the last game to see whether he still went to GWS.

Because mot players have integrity, pride and professionalism and will do their best whenever they are on the field., And because the crowd might find it strange but their teammates wouldn't.

Footy's culture is changing for the worse.

People have said that every year for 150 years. There is nothing new about playrs moving for money. The AFL originally split from the VFL over the issue of professionalism in the 1880s.