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COULD ROYCE HART HAVE PLAYED IN 1980??

The Mighty Wozman

The Mighty Wozman

RFC '82-'13: "Daydream Nation"
Jul 22, 2004
1,229
0
I was speaking to an older Richmond supporter at a Xmas BBQ, and he told me that if arthroscopic surgery had been around in 76/77, Royce would have played on for another 4 years....  I know Royce retired because of his knee - but to what extent was it crook? (cartliage, cruciate liagament, etc).
 
The Mighty Wozman said:
I was speaking to an older Richmond supporter at a Xmas BBQ, and he told me that if arthroscopic surgery had been around in 76/77, Royce would have played on for another 4 years....  I know Royce retired because of his knee - but to what extent was it crook? (cartilage, cruciate ligament, etc).
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I believe it is cartilage, and that he doesn't move too well these days because of the consequences of the injuries.
 
If you had watched Royce in his last game at Vic Park with the Magpie hordes jeering him and cheering evertime he got beaten, you would have cried to see such a great champion go out that way (and hated Pie fans with a vengeance ;D).
Royce would have absolutely killed them today with his style of playing.
 
Trew, I didn't know that he played his last game at Vic Park... I can imagine it would have probably been a muddy heap, and he would have had a couple hacks (Ireland? Morris?) jumping all over him. My dad told me that he played the last season or so virtually as a right footer ...unbelievable...
 
My understanding is that it was his cartilage too. Back in those days, there was no fine trimming of cartiledge with arthroscopic cutters - they just took most of it out leaving bone rubbing on bone a lot of the time.

I wouldn't mind betting he also had structural problems as well (e.g. cruciate or medial damage) that wasn't treated as well as it can be nowadays either.

I have a friend who sees him every year down in Hobart and he said to me the last time he saw him, he was really struggling with his mobility because of the knee damage he'd endured during his playing days.
 
I remember that last season, 1977, well. Royce played a fair bit of that early season at CHB. Then the rains came, and he became immobilised in the mud.
Dad always thought that if they'd given him the 2nd half of the season off, then brought him back a week or 2 before the end of the H&A games, then they could have had him for the finals when his presence would have really counted.
But '77 was the end of an era for a few players. I remember Noel Carter and Robert Lamb being injured before the finals and finishing at Richmond that year also.

Infact the clean out at the end of '77 made way for the premiership of '80.
As a comparison of how a premiership team evolved I recall the following debuts:

1976 - Raines, Dunne & Jess, jnrs; Malthouse, recycled.
1977 -
1978 - Tempany, Strachan, Lee, Weightman & Roach, jnrs.
1979 - Rowlings, Wiley & Mount,
This doesn't include Keane, Cloke & Monteath et al who started prior to 1976. And also others like Landy, Scrimshaw, Collins, Baker, Sarah et al who were recycled players that contributed but unfortunately never made it into the premiership side.

I'm sure there are other names that I've missed.
 
Royces last game - round 14 1977. 33,000 people, Pies kicked ass by over 10 goals and Royce played at full forward (after weeks out) in a bid to keep him going. Bloody Pie fans gave him heaps, players mauled him and yes it was very wet and miserable. They announced that night that he was quitting & I get the idea it was the clubs call - not Royce's,
 
Thanks Phantom, 76 and 77 do come across as key years to the 80 Premiership.  If memory serves me correctly we played against Sth Melbourne in a final in 77... I went with my dad and Grandfather. The Royce hart conclusion saddens me and even though I only saw him at a very young age, I still rate him the best player we have ever had... (I guess I have heard too many stories from my father to think otherwise  :))
 
My records actually suggest Royce Hart's last game with Richmond was Round 16 vs Melbourne 1977 (16 July 1977) in front of 20,050 people. 
Scores: Richmond 10.11.71  Melbourne 13.12.90 (loss 19 pts)
Hart failed to kick a goal.

The Collingwood game mentioned previously was his 3rd last game- he kicked 3 goals that day .
Richmond 11.12.78 Collingwood 22.9.141 (63 pt loss)

For your reference; these are the players who debuted between 1976 - 1979;-
Ken Stonehouse
Emmett Dunne
Don Mattson
Geoff Raines
Graeme Robertson
Alan Lynch
Jim Jess
Michael Malthouse
Ian Scrimshaw
Ian Borchard
David Henry
Jon Hummel
Glen Dickson
David Miller
Alan Noonan
Michael Roach
Peter Laughlin
Greg Naylor
Daryl Freame
Mark Lee
Bruce Tempany
John Einsedel
Greg Strachan
Dale Weightman
Paul Feltham
Barry Grinter
Gary Parkes
Stephen Roach
Garry Davidson
Phillip Bottams
Geoff McMillan
Jeff Berry
Colin Waterson
Stephen Mount
Robert Wiley
Frank Bain
Kim Kershaw
Barry Rowlings
Peter Williams
Shane Williams
Barrie Trotter
Craig Considine
Rod Oborne
Graeme Landy

I also think that that if there were the kind of surgery now adays, then royce may have continued his career- its worth going a bit further back to Roy Wright who did his knee at Punt Road only a few games shy of 200- and never played again.

Regards
Rhett Bartlett
www.rhettrospective.com
 
Phantom said:
I remember that last season, 1977, well. Royce played a fair bit of that early season at CHB. Then the rains came, and he became immobilised in the mud.
Dad always thought that if they'd given him the 2nd half of the season off, then brought him back a week or 2 before the end of the H&A games, then they could have had him for the finals when his presence would have really counted.
But '77 was the end of an era for a few players. I remember Noel Carter and Robert Lamb being injured before the finals and finishing at Richmond that year also.

Infact the clean out at the end of '77 made way for the premiership of '80.
As a comparison of how a premiership team evolved I recall the following debuts:

1976 - Raines, Dunne & Jess, jnrs; Malthouse, recycled.
1977 -
1978 - Tempany, Strachan, Lee, Weightman & Roach, jnrs.
1979 - Rowlings, Wiley & Mount,
This doesn't include Keane, Cloke & Monteath et al who started prior to 1976. And also others like Landy, Scrimshaw, Collins, Baker, Sarah et al who were recycled players that contributed but unfortunately never made it into the premiership side.

I'm sure there are other names that I've missed.
Click to expand...

I would say Butch Edwards was part of the 1976 group as well, Phanto. If I recall correctly both he and Rainsey came up from the 2s around the same time, and not before time either. We were going to the footy more to watch the Geoff Raines Show in the 2s more than the seniors at certain stages.
 
Thanks Rhett for the clarification on Royce's last game. There is no doubt that he should be our next Immortal.
 
rbartlett said:
FYI
Alan Edwards debuted Rd 9 1975 vs carlton at princes park.
Richmond lost. Alan did not kick a goal.

cheers
rhett bartlett
www.rhettrospective.com
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ok Rhett, this will test you, there was another blonde haired player that from the stands looked like Butch's twin brother when playing together in the 2s. He wasnt all to bad a player either. Cant recall if he got a call up to the 1s. The name escapes me but you might be able to help. If I recall, he played in attack mostly, sort of formed a formidable combo with Butch and for good measure Steve Taubert in the square.
 
The Mighty Wozman said:
Thanks Phantom, 76 and 77 do come across as key years to the 80 Premiership.  If memory serves me correctly we played against Sth Melbourne in a final in 77... I went with my dad and Grandfather. The Royce hart conclusion saddens me and even though I only saw him at a very young age, I still rate him the best player we have ever had... (I guess I have heard too many stories from my father to think otherwise  :))
Click to expand...

Yep, we played against South in the elimination final. Balme was out suspended, Clokey played 1st ruck, and Jessy played at CHF. Teasdale wrecked his ankle early in the game, and we beat them comfortably. We got cleaned up by North the following week whom went on to win the premiership. It was the same year as the GF draw, with Briedis & Baker dominating.

Another player to suffer equally with knee problems with Royce was Barry Richardson whom played in our '67, '69 & '74 premierships. Royce retired at 29yo, while Bones retired at 28yo. As I recall Edwards moved into FF to replace Richardson.
Edwards too had his more than fair share of knee problems.
 
Dare I say it, but 29 in 1977 was probably equivalent to what 26 is today... which by my calculation would have meant that Royce could have scraped through to 82 and got us over the line ;D ;D ;D
 
The game in question is:
3 September 1977 Elimination Final Waverly Park
Richmond 15.11.101 defeated Sth Melb 7.12.54 (34 pts)
Crowd : 63.663
Goals : Bartlett 1, Cloke 2, Dunne 2, Edwards 2, Malthouse 1, Monteath 2, Noonan 1, Raines 1.

We would lose the following week by 47 points to Nth Melb.

Rhettrospective
www.rhettrospective.com
 
rbartlett said:
The game in question is:
3 September 1977 Elimination Final Waverly Park
Richmond 15.11.101 defeated Sth Melb 7.12.54 (34 pts)
Crowd : 63.663
Goals : Bartlett 1, Cloke 2, Dunne 2, Edwards 2, Malthouse 1, Monteath 2, Noonan 1, Raines 1.

We would lose the following week by 47 points to Nth Melb.

Rhettrospective
www.rhettrospective.com
Click to expand...

Well done Rhett.
I remember Jessy having this enormous torpedo shot at goal from about the centre and it sailing through just off line. Must have gone 80m considering it was Waverley.

Actually a good game to come across was that game against Hawthorn in '76, where Jessy comes off the bench for the last quarter puuls down I think 3 speckies and kicks 3 goals to win us the game. As I recall it might have been on a public holiday but I'm not sure about that. You might have some more info on that game Rhett?
 
Phantom,
If you're talking about the game I think you mean, then it was 1977, Rd 2 - I featured that game in the "My Top 5 Games" thread on the "Blast from the Past" board.
Go to this thread:
http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=2051.0
bottom of page 1.

I am 41. I was recently talking to a supposed "footy head" 10 years my junior. Collingwood fan. When he heard I barracked for Richmond he asked me to name some of the great players from the 67-82 era. I rattled some off. He had NEVER HEARD OF ANY OF THEM ! Not even ROYCE HART!!! I couldn't believe it. The bloke was picked in the hardest position (CHF) in the AFL's Team of the Century. Fair enough, the fagpie was born in about 1973 but it would be like me never having heard of John Coleman.

Says it all about Collingwood people.
 
Just a quick appology. Did not mean to mislead anyone. Just I went to the game at VPark and then went out and drowned my sorrows. I remember hearing about Royce retiring on the 10 pm news whilst out on the turps - thought it was the same night (memory must get distorted over 28 years :()
 
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