Clayton Oliver v Ollie Wines as draft selections

[Dyer'ere]

I want to compare Clayton Oliver and Ollie Wines as players and for the relative success of the drafting.

My contention is that the selection of Clayton Oliver in and of itself put Melbourne in premiership country and the in and of itself the selection of Ollie Wines sent Port Adelaide back to the draft.

The inside midfield prospect Melbourne recruited was perceived at draft time to be about the same quality as the selection that was offer Port. But the actual players are miles apart.

I’ve chosen this pair of players as a means of differentiating between an adequate selection like Wines and an inspired premiership pick like Oliver. The latter is gold.

NB empirically Wines is the more decorated individual in some eyes.

The reason Melbourne got lucky and Port got much less so is mainly luck. But there are knowable factors. What are they?

 

[tigertime2]

I want to compare Clayton Oliver and Ollie Wines as players and for the relative success of the drafting.

My contention is that the selection of Clayton Oliver in and of itself put Melbourne in premiership country and the in and of itself the selection of Ollie Wines sent Port Adelaide back to the draft.

The inside midfield prospect Melbourne recruited was perceived at draft time to be about the same quality as the selection that was offer Port. But the actual players are miles apart.

I’ve chosen this pair of players as a means of differentiating between an adequate selection like Wines and an inspired premiership pick like Oliver. The latter is gold.

NB empirically Wines is the more decorated individual in some eyes.

The reason Melbourne got lucky and Port got much less so is mainly luck. But there are knowable factors. What are they?

Some people see things and say why. Some people see things and say why not!

 

[mrposhman]

I want to compare Clayton Oliver and Ollie Wines as players and for the relative success of the drafting.

My contention is that the selection of Clayton Oliver in and of itself put Melbourne in premiership country and the in and of itself the selection of Ollie Wines sent Port Adelaide back to the draft.

The inside midfield prospect Melbourne recruited was perceived at draft time to be about the same quality as the selection that was offer Port. But the actual players are miles apart.

I’ve chosen this pair of players as a means of differentiating between an adequate selection like Wines and an inspired premiership pick like Oliver. The latter is gold.

NB empirically Wines is the more decorated individual in some eyes.

The reason Melbourne got lucky and Port got much less so is mainly luck. But there are knowable factors. What are they?

Good question posed.

I'm going to keep it simple and for me its about speed, and within that not necessarily raw top speed but acceleration.

This takes a clearance from an average clearance to a great clearance. That burst away from the pack is what seperates the best midfielders from the next rung down. Dusty had it, Oliver has it, Petracca has it, Dangerfield had it etc.

Wines is good, but in order to generate a great clearance rather than a good or average one, he relies on a receiver to make it a great clearance.

 

[tigerman]

I want to compare Clayton Oliver and Ollie Wines as players and for the relative success of the drafting.

My contention is that the selection of Clayton Oliver in and of itself put Melbourne in premiership country and the in and of itself the selection of Ollie Wines sent Port Adelaide back to the draft.

The inside midfield prospect Melbourne recruited was perceived at draft time to be about the same quality as the selection that was offer Port. But the actual players are miles apart.

I’ve chosen this pair of players as a means of differentiating between an adequate selection like Wines and an inspired premiership pick like Oliver. The latter is gold.

NB empirically Wines is the more decorated individual in some eyes.

The reason Melbourne got lucky and Port got much less so is mainly luck. But there are knowable factors. What are they?

Jack, it's a collective, the Dees having the better midfield and rucks, Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Gawn, Grundy and Jackson before he left.

I reckon, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw and Viney would match up pretty well against the Lions midfield of Voss, Black, Power and Lappin.

 

[Dyer'ere]

Jack, it's a collective, the Dees having the better midfield and rucks, Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Gawn, Grundy and Jackson before he left.

It's certainly a collective, tigerman.

It's nice that the Dees have a nice possession winning ruck in Gawn. They are rare.

Down to midfielders, Oliver and Petracca are the best 1-2 mids in the game. I wouldn't give four bob for Viney and Brayshaw the elder is a HBF, Salem my pick of Melbourne HBFs.

Would Petracca, Wines be the best 1-2 mids in the game? Nup.

I'm betraying my deeply held belief that Oliver is the best player in the game. At the very least he's in the top few. Wines is nowhere near that level. But is adequate.

I reckon, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw and Viney would match up pretty well against the Lions midfield of Voss, Black, Power and Lappin.

Oliver and Petracca stack up beautifully, tm. I'm not a fan of the Viney. Viney being a sub-Wines class pig. That said pigs are necessary but gettable. Champions are vital to premiership success. Moreover I much prefer the Butters and Rozee stocks to Viney or any of the other Melbourne battlers. Where do they slot in at Melbourne? They start. Melbourne's midfield is thin IMO. That's partly why the ruck stands out.

Oliver was a golden selection IMO. Wines was not. We're going to look into what was different about the choices, the prospects. MrP has rightly pointed out "acceleration". Explosive is because acceleration.

But what was different about the draft prospects? Oliver went #4. Wines went #67. Big difference.

 

[tigerman]

It's certainly a collective, tigerman.

It's nice that the Dees have a nice possession winning ruck in Gawn. They are rare.

Down to midfielders, Oliver and Petracca are the best 1-2 mids in the game. I wouldn't give four bob for Viney and Brayshaw the elder is a HBF, Salem my pick of Melbourne HBFs.

Would Petracca, Wines be the best 1-2 mids in the game? Nup.

I'm betraying my deeply held belief that Oliver is the best player in the game. At the very least he's in the top few. Wines is nowhere near that level. But is adequate.



Oliver and Petracca stack up beautifully, tm. I'm not a fan of the Viney. Viney being a sub-Wines class pig. That said pigs are necessary but gettable. Champions are vital to premiership success. Moreover I much prefer the Butters and Rozee stocks to Viney or any of the other Melbourne battlers. Where do they slot in at Melbourne? They start. Melbourne's midfield is thin IMO. That's partly why the ruck stands out.

Oliver was a golden selection IMO. Wines was not. We're going to look into what was different about the choices, the prospects. MrP has rightly pointed out "acceleration". Explosive is because acceleration.

But what was different about the draft prospects? Oliver went #4. Wines went #67. Big difference.

I don't like Viney, but he's no slouch. 25 disposals, 12 clearances and 6 tackles in the Dees premiership win is not to be sneezed at.

 

[Sintiger]

Oliver is a star, definitely in the top 10 players in the AFL imo.

He was heavily criticised for his kicking up to a couple of years ago

Just saying ........

 

[Dyer'ere]

I don't live Viney, but he's no slouch. 25 disposals, 12 clearances and 6 tackles in the Dees premiership win is not to be sneezed at.

Great game. He bats behind IMO the best midfield pair in the game and they get the heat. With that kind of cover Buttters and Rozee will tear games to pieces.

The thing is Butters and Rozee don't get that kind of cover. Because Wines is not in the same league as the premiership stars. Oppositions sweat on Rozee. They sweat on Butters. (On the occasions that the juvenile pair is sound and fresh.) Wines is dangerous when forward but is batting too high at #1 at Port. And is nowhere near #1 in the game.

Of course, I betray that I think it's self evident that Oliver is the best mid or top three mid in the game. I could be wrong about that. And many will disagree.

The point of the thread is to examine the impact each selection has had on each club. One player has a premiership and was best on for three quarters of a GF.

 

[tigerman]

Great game. He bats behind IMO the best midfield pair in the game and they get the heat. With that kind of cover Buttters and Rozee will tear games to pieces.

The thing is Butters and Rozee don't get that kind of cover. Because Wines is not in the same league as the premiership stars. Oppositions sweat on Rozee. They sweat on Butters. (On the occasions that the juvenile pair is sound and fresh.) Wines is dangerous when forward but is batting too high at #1 at Port. And is nowhere near #1 in the game.

Of course, I betray that I think it's self evident that Oliver is the best mid or top three mid in the game. I could be wrong about that. And many will disagree.

The point of the thread is to examine the impact each selection has had on each club. One player has a premiership and was best on for three quarters of a GF.

Agree with your rating on Oliver, on current form the Bont would be the only midfielder I'd have ahead of him.