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Brett Rosebury-Umpire
- Thread starter graystar1
- Start date
He has added a bit of mayo there but the number of tackles is much higher:
But you have to ask why tackles are higher. I'm not sure exactly how they count these but in the old days the umpires would call a stoppage once a pack started to form, now they leave it for half an hour. Plus, do they count the second player coming in to tackle as another tackle?
I reckon a fair amount of the issue here, as with a number of the other issues, is how they adjudicate the game now - letting a lot of infringements go to keep the free kick numbers down, not penalising holding the man most of the time etc.
This is a problem the AFL have brought upon themselves.
DS
But you have to ask why tackles are higher. I'm not sure exactly how they count these but in the old days the umpires would call a stoppage once a pack started to form, now they leave it for half an hour. Plus, do they count the second player coming in to tackle as another tackle?
I reckon a fair amount of the issue here, as with a number of the other issues, is how they adjudicate the game now - letting a lot of infringements go to keep the free kick numbers down, not penalising holding the man most of the time etc.
This is a problem the AFL have brought upon themselves.
DS
tackles or tackle? Asking for a friend who also lived in Indonesia for a while.
How hard is it?
There's 3 flogs on the ground now.
'If the player gets tackled and dosent release the ball by foot or hand will be penalized'
There's 20 throws a game that go without been penalized.
In the back never gets paid anymore.
One umpire gives a player 20 seconds to release the ball while others ping the player going for the ball immediately.
Umpiring is driving people away from the game
There's 3 flogs on the ground now.
'If the player gets tackled and dosent release the ball by foot or hand will be penalized'
There's 20 throws a game that go without been penalized.
In the back never gets paid anymore.
One umpire gives a player 20 seconds to release the ball while others ping the player going for the ball immediately.
Umpiring is driving people away from the game
I don't mind tackling, I just get shitty with the number of players held before they have the ball.
Throws need to be reined in too, a more strict adjudication of the handball rules, and some consistency (yeah, dream on) is sorely needed.
And, FFS, call a ball up as the pack forms, the game flowed so so much better when they did that years ago.
DS
If it's too hot, get out of the kitchen.
Or is this remark from an experienced umpire a veiled criticism of the AFL hierarchy?
yeah, except these days a ball-up can result in another ball-up, as players will get over to the contest. Holding is a tough one... nothing worse than a random hold being paid to a forward 50 metres off the ball.
I remember umps in the old days picking out a random free kick to a defender if there were too many ball ups in a muddy forward pocket.
Aah, but the answer to the random hold free being paid, is to stop paying the random frees and pay every free that is observed by the umpires.
It is crystal clear that the umpires are not paying every infringement that they see, the number of players held at the centre bounce, even before the ball is bounced, is absurd. If you want the game to flow, allow the good rovers to go for the ball without being impeded by an illegal hold. Simples.
DS
No, I'm talking the good old days when the umps made up a free kick to break up congestion. And that was fine.
They should pay the first free seen, forget about every free. This is what they do in the round ball game - first free kick is paid, if someone breaks someone's leg after that then they get a red card but the previous free stands.
Nah, those defensive clearing frees were all there
. Actually, the funny thing about it is, since I do remember the old days, whenever I hear the whistle close to goal I expect a defensive clearing free, but these days it seems to go more to the forwards (except Jack and Tom, they get reamed).Pay the first free seen, wow, that ain't difficult is it? Just seems very difficult for AFL umpires. It is the only way, then if the players get stroppy the umpire just says "I paid the first infringement I saw". Much simpler than the current approach where the umpires, under instruction to reduce the number of free kicks given, either wait until it is so ridiculous that they have to pay a free, or, they ball it up which creates more congestion than a quick free kick. Neither of the current strategies reduces the number of stoppages which is meant to be something they want, nor does it reduce the congestion, quite the contrary.
DS
I think the bigger issue is how long they take to throw the ball up following a tackle, largely due to the ruck nomination rule. This means more numbers flow around the ball, particularly defensively.
Eliminate the need for ruckmen to put their hands up like they're in primary school, allow two players to compete in the ruck (if a third jumps in, blow for a free kick) and the umpires could throw the ball up quicker and not allow congestion to build around the contest.
Eliminate the need for ruckmen to put their hands up like they're in primary school, allow two players to compete in the ruck (if a third jumps in, blow for a free kick) and the umpires could throw the ball up quicker and not allow congestion to build around the contest.
Have 4 players from each team nominate before the game that they will contest in the ruck. No-one else permitted. Those 4 players are then indemnified from getting reported in any ruck contest, except against the opposing teams ruck. They are then clear to clock any shortarse who gets in their way at a ball up or boundary throw in.
Pay a free kick for a ruck infringement.
‘Bodying the ruckman’ = more than two players competing.
Hmm, ok, let's see what the actual rules say.
A shepherd is defined as follows:
So, we have a 5 metre radius for a start. Plus this rule still does not allow for pushing in the back which is illegal under a different section of the rules.
I seem to recall years ago you could not shepherd the ball, in other words you could only shepherd when a team mate had possession of the ball. I would also say that the above is a quite strange definition of a shepherd, shepherding is blocking, a push or a bump is a push or a bump. I suppose it does mean that players are limited from pushing and bumping when the ball is more than 5 metres away, but they don't actually enforce that and I certainly don't recall it being illegal to bump a player when the ball is more than 5 metres away years ago.
Holding is out since the definition of prohibited contact includes the following:
The enforcement of that one is laughable.
While I am sympathetic to the reason behind having to nominate a ruck, it is a recipe for congestion. To some extent the amount of time it takes to call a ball up is the problem here, because they let the pack form and muck around for a while, in contrast to what used to be the case when a ball up was called when a pack was forming. They have created the problem and the fix creates yet more problems.
I would be interested to see how it would work if they called a ball up much quicker and threw the ball in the air also much quicker. That may not solve the problem, but we have to find a better solution than nominating a ruck.
Ever since they have implemented adjudication which is designed to "let the game flow" it has flowed worse than ever. The solutions used (don't pay all free kicks, allow packs too much time for a disposal, allow players to hold a player in pursuit of (but not possession of) the ball, etc) have contributed to the congestion problems. Then they try and jerry rig solutions to the subsequent problems, such as the requirement to nominate a ruck. It is a mess. They are making it hard for the umpires and the umpires are not adjudicating the rules very well either.
DS
No one says anything. The ball is thrown up or thrown in. Two players compete. If a third enters, it's a free kick.
It really is simple. You should consider Hocking's vacant role for meaningless overcomplication of something that was simple for basically the entirety of the game's existence.
